BASC AGM

[finnbear270]

Jimmy, Most of us who shall we say "Bash", are hoping to put pressure on the organisation that is perceived to be the biggest, but also the one that is failing so miserably to attack, OR EVEN defend, .................. Let's just say the hope is for a definite visible fall in membership, that might be big enough for the powers that be, at BASC to smell the coffee, & do the job we all thought they were supposed to do.

 

[Dalua]

In the interests of openness and transparency, before we discuss, may I ask - what organisation do you currently belong to and have you asked them about what they are doing about police forces in the UK implementing mandatory GP verification of the medical information you and I provide in our SGC/FAC grants/renewals? If you have asked, what was the answer?

I belong to BASC. My organisation appears to have been closely involved (at the very least) in the changes to procedure which have lead predicatably to certificate applicants being charged by medical practitioners for their involvement in grant/renewal.
It does not seem to acknowledge that it is not the 'mandatory GP verification' that is the problem, but rather this same point - that the applicants have to pay extra for it over and above the statutory fee laid down by Parliament.

As has been repeatedly pointed out, we have all for decades given the Police the right to contact our GP by signing that part of the application/renewal form. It is a novelty that some of them are taking that option up in all cases - which might or might not improve public safety.

The problem from the applicants' perspective is that the Police do not, as used to be the case, have to pay the GPs from their own funds - but rather are able, following the BASC-approved changes, to get the applicants to pay.

And yes, I know BASC approved the scheme in a form where only applicants with particular declared illnesses would have to pay - which was on the face of it bad enough. However, I would hypothesise that it is that change of liability for the costs (i.e. from Police pay the doc to applicant pays the doc) which has got us into the current position.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Jimmy, Most of us who shall we say "Bash", are hoping to put pressure on the organisation that is perceived to be the biggest, but also the one that is failing so miserably to attack, OR EVEN defend, .................. Let's just say the hope is for a definite visible fall in membership, that might be big enough for the powers that be, at BASC to smell the coffee, & do the job we all thought they were supposed to do.

Now you I can get, your a member so can give them 100% because I like you know that they have failed in several different areas. The thing that grates on me is all the folk banging on about how poor basc are without looking in their own back yard.

 

[jer]

I suppose I'm "for my sins" in the better the devil you know camp although like I've said I'm really hanging on by a shoestring.
You make some valid points regarding folk quoting from past experience an I get it, but the point that I keep trying to make is people leave basc to join another organisation because they believe basc are failing them but then don't seem to see the fact that they're being led up the path by the new organisation too.
We had a recent poll on here about who your with for an organisation, not looked at it for a while but last I looked SGA were top, yet when you go to their website the very same things you possibly left basc for don't get a mention.
It just seems to me like a conga at a wedding, everyone is joining in because it looks like the thing to do.
I've no problem with anyone leaving basc, after all it their money to spend as they wish, but I don't see any point leaving an organisation because of failings to give money to another with the same failings.
If someone came on an said I've left basc because of their failings and I'm going to another organisation that has the same failings but it only costing me half the money then I'd get it, but that's not happening.
Regards
Jimmy

I understand where you are coming from here, the CA are another active organisation but have similar failings so BASC are not alone in being proactive on some issues. I think the point you are missing here is that UNLESS members leave in numbers the direction within an organisation will not change, they are no different to say politicians who don't give a damn until we don't vote for them.Conor has made many offers of a private chat which is all well and good but many will not take up that offer for several reasons, not least being wary of engaging in direct conversation with someone who may be more verbally agile and smart at dodging the issues. If there are good explanations have a open forum and answer the questions put forward. You say that you are on a shoestring regarding your membership and I will take my hat off and say you have been a stalwart in their defense but surely if the likes of you are seriously considering leaving why the hell isnt Conor speaking to you and taking feedback home to base. If they are ignoring the likes of you they have a very bleak future and it speaks volumes for the leadership at BASC. Let me give you one simple example of how self destructive BASC are, when the lead ban was announced on our behalf no one making that announcement thought to include that old or unsuitable guns would be exempt in the event that an suitable alternative was not found. I and no doubt many others could have got onboard with that approach, Instead they say but it's voluntary hoping that the powers that be will leave those that don't conform alone. When and not if they day comes and we see legislation we will be on the back foot trying to defend the use of older/ unsuitable guns. BASC have done more harm to themselves than the antis could have hoped and I'm staggered that the supposedly clever and /or educated people running the organisation don't se what they are doing.

 

[jimmy milnes]

I understand where you are coming from here, the CA are another active organisation but have similar failings so BASC are not alone in being proactive on some issues. I think the point you are missing here is that UNLESS members leave in numbers the direction within an organisation will not change, they are no different to say politicians who don't give a damn until we don't vote for them.Conor has made many offers of a private chat which is all well and good but many will not take up that offer for several reasons, not least being wary of engaging in direct conversation with someone who may be more verbally agile and smart at dodging the issues. If there are good explanations have a open forum and answer the questions put forward. You say that you are on a shoestring regarding your membership and I will take my hat off and say you have been a stalwart in their defense but surely if the likes of you are seriously considering leaving why the hell isnt Conor speaking to you and taking feedback home to base. If they are ignoring the likes of you they have a very bleak future and it speaks volumes for the leadership at BASC. Let me give you one simple example of how self destructive BASC are, when the lead ban was announced on our behalf no one making that announcement thought to include that old or unsuitable guns would be exempt in the event that an suitable alternative was not found. I and no doubt many others could have got onboard with that approach, Instead they say but it's voluntary hoping that the powers that be will leave those that don't conform alone. When and not if they day comes and we see legislation we will be on the back foot trying to defend the use of older/ unsuitable guns. BASC have done more harm to themselves than the antis could have hoped and I'm staggered that the supposedly clever and /or educated people running the organisation don't se what they are doing.

But who do you go to if you jump ?
Who's actually doing better ? Can you recommend me someone please as I've trawled an they're all about the same, as I said somewhere the only difference is that most of the others are around half the price.
I want an organisation to be the Tommy over the Trenches, taking the fight to the people who oppose field sports.
I want an organisation that is publicly promoting to the masses the benefits of field sports.
I want an organisation that sees a problem before it happens and works tirelessly to change it before its brought up to disrupt things.
Which is doing it?
I'd happily give more than I pay to basc if they were out there giving it 110%
I was over the moon the other day, while watching TV "which is normally background noise to me but for kay to enjoy" I looked up to see a programme with that Jimmy Doherty guy "Olivers mate" that showed Simon Whitehead ferreting rabbits, necking them on TV, explaining that it needs doing in certain parts..
Jack pot... The guys a star for getting it on TV

 

[jer]

But who do you go to if you jump ?
Who's actually doing better ? Can you recommend me someone please as I've trawled an they're all about the same, as I said somewhere the only difference is that most of the others are around half the price.
I want an organisation to be the Tommy over the Trenches, taking the fight to the people who oppose field sports.
I want an organisation that is publicly promoting to the masses the benefits of field sports.
I want an organisation that sees a problem before it happens and works tirelessly to change it before its brought up to disrupt things.
Which is doing it?
I'd happily give more than I pay to basc if they were out there giving it 110%
I was over the moon the other day, while watching TV "which is normally background noise to me but for kay to enjoy" I looked up to see a programme with that Jimmy Doherty guy "Olivers mate" that showed Simon Whitehead ferreting rabbits, necking them on TV, explaining that it needs doing in certain parts..
Jack pot... The guys a star for getting it on TV

If you want all that then there is no organisation doing it at the moment, however BASC is best placed to be that organisation or so they say. Who do you go to? Whoever gives you the best insurance cover would be my advice because as I have said without an exodus of membership no change will occur and you will never get your wish of an organisation that does all you want. E mail BASC with your wish list of what you expect along with notice that you will not continue to be a member until they change course. You say you would happily pay more and I would do the same if all issues were robustly fought on our behalf and for years as an individual I previously supported BASC and the CA additionally a syndicate I have been a member of for 10 years has from day one taken out BASC membership just to ensure that we are all covered with insurance, I was happy to pay memberships twice. This year I have persuaded the syndicate to go elsewhere, possibly C3 just for the insurance cover which is better. All I can suggest to you is that as you are a BASC member you maybe pm Conor and see what explanation you get, I’m sure he has seen all the discussion on here so knows where the issues lie, you know the ones they don’t ever address in public but would rather discuss in private. Believe me Jimmy we all want what you want the only difference is some of us are not prepared to continue supporting a failing organisation in the hope that they recieve the message loud and clear and act on it.

 

[terrier1]

Let's just recap that this is a thread about the BASC AGM that took place last Saturday that nobody from this forum attended as far as I know - and if they did - they asked no questions. Happy to be corrected wrong - in the interests of openness and transparency.

In this thread about the BASC AGM - that nobody from this forum attended or asked questions at - a number of people have posted off topic comments that I have answered.

So, let's turn to your off topic request 'in the interests of openness and transparency' for a discussion on police forces in the UK implementing mandatory GP verification of the medical information that you and I provide in our SGC/FAC grants/renewal.

In the interests of openness and transparency, before we discuss, may I ask - what organisation do you currently belong to and have you asked them about what they are doing about police forces in the UK implementing mandatory GP verification of the medical information you and I provide in our SGC/FAC grants/renewals? If you have asked, what was the answer?

May I also ask you to PM me with your name and email address in the interests of openness and transparency so that I know with whom I am having this discussion in an open public forum given that you posed your question to me in the interests of openness and transparency.

My current shooting organization which I am a member of was not involved in the discussions with the police/home office as I believe our organization was and my current organization don't think they are the voice of shooting people of this country. And before I give you name and email address. Want are you so desperate to send me. And last of all you still have not answered my question what is your organization go to do about the medical letter for renewals.

 

[Mike L]

Ooooh, secret squirrel!

 

[jimmy milnes]

My current shooting organization which I am a member of was not involved in the discussions with the police/home office as I believe our organization was and my current organization don't think they are the voice of shooting people of this country. And before I give you name and email address. Want are you so desperate to send me. And last of all you still have not answered my question what is your organization go to do about the medical letter for renewals.

Who are your organisation terrier1?
And what are they actually doing to better our situation on the subjects while they're taking your annual subs?
Just because someone isn't involved at the beginning of something doesn't mean they can't join "or even take over" the fight if they think its not being done correctly surely.
If they're doing the do so to speak they maybe worth me jumping ship to..

 

[jimmy milnes]

If you want all that then there is no organisation doing it at the moment, however BASC is best placed to be that organisation or so they say. Who do you go to? Whoever gives you the best insurance cover would be my advice because as I have said without an exodus of membership no change will occur and you will never get your wish of an organisation that does all you want. E mail BASC with your wish list of what you expect along with notice that you will not continue to be a member until they change course. You say you would happily pay more and I would do the same if all issues were robustly fought on our behalf and for years as an individual I previously supported BASC and the CA additionally a syndicate I have been a member of for 10 years has from day one taken out BASC membership just to ensure that we are all covered with insurance, I was happy to pay memberships twice. This year I have persuaded the syndicate to go elsewhere, possibly C3 just for the insurance cover which is better. All I can suggest to you is that as you are a BASC member you maybe pm Conor and see what explanation you get, I’m sure he has seen all the discussion on here so knows where the issues lie, you know the ones they don’t ever address in public but would rather discuss in private. Believe me Jimmy we all want what you want the only difference is some of us are not prepared to continue supporting a failing organisation in the hope that they recieve the message loud and clear and act on it.

Your opening words say everything and that's what I've been banging on about all along matey
I was considering ccc3 and saying bugger it as I don't believe "as I've said many times" that any of them are doing what they should, but someone somewhere one a thread here reminded me that I should support at least one of them.
I know my wish list needs aladins lamp as things stand at the minute but perhaps the email that you suggested may be a start

 

[terrier1]

Who are your organisation terrier1?
And what are they actually doing to better our situation on the subjects while they're taking your annual subs?
Just because someone isn't involved at the beginning of something doesn't mean they can't join "or even take over" the fight if they think its not being done correctly surely.
If they're doing the do so to speak they maybe worth me jumping ship to..

So BASC have kicked the ball over the fence and broken all the windows and you want MY ORGANIZATION TO PAY FOR THEM. Can I ask do you work for BASC?

 

[jimmy milnes]

So BASC have kicked the ball over the fence and broken all the windows and you want MY ORGANIZATION TO PAY FOR THEM.

Yeah if it broken someone needs to fix it.
If my roof leaked I'd get up an mend it I wouldn't let it get worse..
Who are they an what are they doing to make our sport better?
I'd like to jump if they're actually doing the do..
It's not a trick question matey I'm a straight talking Yorkshire man, I'm not a basc stalwart ill jump if someone can provide me with evidence of another organisation fighting for us on all these subjects..
P's.... Don't work for basc I'm a joiner that works for a shopfit firm..

 

[terrier1]

Yeah if it broken someone needs to fix it.
If my roof leaked I'd get up an mend it I wouldn't let it get worse..
Who are they an what are they doing to make our sport better?
I'd like to jump if they're actually doing the do..
It's not a trick question matey I'm a straight talking Yorkshire man, I'm not a basc stalwart ill jump if someone can provide me with evidence of another organisation fighting for us on all these subjects..

So if you are a BASC member are you happy the way BASC as delt with the medical letter for renewals the Lead issue and the Insurance issue you have the option to stay with them or vote with your wallet and go somewhere else. Which is what I did after being a member of BASC for 30+ years.

 

[jimmy milnes]

So if you are a BASC member are you happy the way BASC as delt with the medical letter for renewals the Lead issue and the Insurance issue you have the option to stay with them or vote with your wallet and go somewhere else. Which is what I did after being a member of BASC for 30+ years.

With the greatest of respect, are you actually reading my posts?
NO THEY ARE NOT DOING WHAT I PAY THEM FOR ie.. ACTING IN MY BEST INTERESTS...
who is please??? So I can move... Give me hard evidence of another organisation that's fighting for us on all these issues.. Sitting bolt upright doing sod all waiting to be shot by the other side is just as bad as shooting your self in my opinion... Ya guna die either way..

 

[terrier1]

With the greatest of respect, are you actually reading my posts?
NO THEY ARE NOT DOING WHAT I PAY THEM FOR ie.. ACTING IN MY BEST INTERESTS...
who is please??? So I can move... Give me hard evidence of another organisation that's fighting for us on all these issues.. Sitting bolt upright doing sod all waiting to be shot by the other side is just as bad as shooting your self in my opinion... Ya guna die either way..

So why are you still paying them. That the point. There is a new thread about BASC getting involved in the overhaul of the licensing system. Now that's a worry.

 

[jimmy milnes]

So why are you still paying them. That the point. There is a new thread about BASC getting involved in the overhaul of the licensing system. Now that's a worry.

I'm paying them because nobody can tell me and give me evidence to back it up that any of the others are taking to fighting on our behalf on all these issues.. But I kinda think I've said that several times over..
Again... Who you with what are the proactively doing please
Jeez and people accuse basc of avoiding difficult questions

 

[terrier1]

I'm paying them because nobody can tell me and give me evidence to back it up that any of the others are taking to fighting on our behalf on all these issues.. But I kinda think I've said that several times over..
Again... Who you with what are the proactively doing please
Jeez and people accuse basc of avoiding difficult questions

Yes you are going round in circles and the point I am trying to get over is you are paying an organization the are doing more harm to the sport that we both enjoy.

 

[Rewulf]

I'm paying them because nobody can tell me and give me evidence to back it up that any of the others are taking to fighting on our behalf on all these issues.. But I kinda think I've said that several times over..
Again... Who you with what are the proactively doing please
Jeez and people accuse basc of avoiding difficult questions

2 weeks ago I was giving BASC £80 a year to provide insurance , and support shooting sports, oh and provide legal cover....
Now I pay C3 £32 a year to provide insurance and support shooting sports, oh and provide the legal cover BASC decided to remove without notice or consultation with members.
Seems like a no brainer to me?

Damn I'm going to miss that glossy advert packed magazine though....

 

[jimmy milnes]

Yes you are going round in circles and the point I am trying to get over is you are paying an organization the are doing more harm to the sport that we both enjoy.

Your really not answering the questions are you now let me take a wild stab here... Because you can't give me any other organisation that is proactively doing the work.. I genuinely want you to provide me with what I've asked for so I can jump ship, but the very sad truth is that neither of us can find any. Now I'm sure if I phoned any of them up and told them of my dilemma they'd be all over me like a rash telling me this and that but then in 12 months time nothing would be different... Trust me I know I joined the NGO for 12 months as I was going to jump ship but wanted to dip my toe in another mob first before commiting, nowt different just another sub to pay..

 

[jimmy milnes]

2 weeks ago I was giving BASC £80 a year to provide insurance , and support shooting sports, oh and provide legal cover....
Now I pay C3 £32 a year to provide insurance and support shooting sports, oh and provide the legal cover BASC decided to remove without notice or consultation with members.
Seems like a no brainer to me?

Damn I'm going to miss that glossy advert packed magazine though....

Forgive me ill have to look into it again as I thought they were only providing insurance..
Are they proactive in fighting for us