Prices of pups abroad and at home

[mereside]

That’s what happens when you start breeding for show lines and looks, having and ISHV dog and a british dog I can tell you there is a huge difference in drive, I really did get the best I could from the British dog and love her to bits as do all uksha members which started this way but there is a huge difference, this is the same in many breeds when they go down the show route things start to get diluted out and here people think that dogs can work but to truly watch dogs on driven hunts with huge amounts of game and distraction and to work through all that still on one animal is truly an eye opener, it is the wounded game we look for so people should think about what they need the dog for, it’s a long time to have a dog with health issues or little working ability, lastly reading the post from George the tests here in the Uk don’t go far enough why not go the whole way and show what you and the dog can do, with recognises tests with recognised judges regards Wayne

 

[Wolverine]

It’s because people here
a)Want to think they know everything about dogs.
b)they want to dilute down what has been bred for years.
Only need to look at numerous breeds ruined here in the UK by people who think they know better.
eg drahthaars crossed with labs because the drahthaar are too hot to handle,get a labrador.....
The UK and the societies here that track,there are 2 that are supposed to be tracking organisations are seen by those on the continent as a joke.
UKSHA has the full support of these organisations on the continent.
All one needs to do is ask why this is ?
Is it because we are going the correct route for the breeds ?
Is it actually because we have recognised tests and judges ?
Is it in fact because we are breeding the correct way for the dogs ?
Just a few questions to ponder on.
Have a nice weekend all.
All the best
George

 

[Wolverine]

The points made in the posts are rather concerning. The fact that there are many in the UK with little or no working instinct is shocking - that doesn't happen in one or two generations - that is a result over time. Perhaps buyer/importers haven't paid attention or even understood the exam passes on pedigrees. That does sound a bit of a mess.

Exactly as we have been saying for nearly 15 years now.......

 

[Jagare]

The BMH and Hanoverian are specialist tracking dogs. They excel at that task if properly trained. Far to many are bought by clue less people for a stalking accessory who then have no idea how to train it to get even a fraction of the dogs potential. Their wonderful stalking companion only every follows hot scent from freshly shot deer but in there eyes its a real star and has plenty of " real work experience" . These same clueless people then want to breed from their little tracking star. Is it any wonder the BMH breed is phucked in the UK. I recon I could go to the stray dog home and pick a stray and train it to a tracking level that would put most of the BMH stalking accessories to shame.
When i helped with the NGO tracking days in the UK, one think I said was, no matter what fancy dog you buy for a stalking companion if you don't train it, you've just got another, any old dog.

 

[Wolverine]

The BMH and Hanoverian are specialist tracking dogs. They excel at that task if properly trained. Far to many are bought by clue less people for a stalking accessory who then have no idea how to train it to get even a fraction of the dogs potential. Their wonderful stalking companion only every follows hot scent from freshly shot deer but in there eyes its a real star and has plenty of " real work experience" . These same clueless people then want to breed from their little tracking star. Is it any wonder the BMH breed is phucked in the UK. I recon I could go to the stray dog home and pick a stray and train it to a tracking level that would put most of the BMH stalking accessories to shame.
When i helped with the NGO tracking days in the UK, one think I said was, no matter what fancy dog you buy for a stalking companion if you don't train it, you've just got another, any old dog.

100% correct and the way they’ve been bred leads to the major issues.
Same will happen with the knowledgeable people in other organisations.
Why ?
They too will breed crap....
FCI HS coming here are now showing real issues and some have passed on major issues.
All the best
George

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I think there is an arrogance in the British psyche (me included) that thinks "I can do better or I do not need to follow johny foreigner"s rules". Brexit may be the best example of this in operation?
I will never have a dog due to various personal reasons but am full of respect for the work all the countries put into their hobby/passion.
Waidmannsheil
Martin

 

[Wolverine]

I think there is an arrogance in the British psyche (me included) that thinks "I can do better or I do not need to follow johny foreigner"s rules". Brexit may be the best example of this in operation?
I will never have a dog due to various personal reasons but am full of respect for the work all the countries put into their hobby/passion.
Waidmannsheil
Martin

This too is 100% correct.
The difference between dog work in countries abroad and here is night and day.
People here always want it easy,not the best way for the wounded animal.
Waidgerecht is non-existent here Martin.
Liebe Grüße
Schorsch

 

[Waz77]

Agree with most of what's been said but wasn't the drahthaar bred by crossing with the korthal. And the jagd terrier? Reinventing the wheel to suit your requirements isn't just a British trait

 

[jimmy milnes]

It’s because people here
a)Want to think they know everything about dogs.
b)they want to dilute down what has been bred for years.
Only need to look at numerous breeds ruined here in the UK by people who think they know better.
eg drahthaars crossed with labs because the drahthaar are too hot to handle,get a labrador.....

Bang on matey

 

[mereside]

Agree with most of what's been said but wasn't the drahthaar bred by crossing with the korthal. And the jagd terrier? Reinventing the wheel to suit your requirements isn't just a British trait

Same as Hs/BGS the point is they still used healthy working dogs here the crossing of these two breeds what is the purpose, I will tell you it is because people found them difficult so using a lab or something they think it will help in reality they just need different training and coaxing to gain the best from them that’s all, all you do with such matings is add more Unknown’s to an already unknown quantity it’s just a lottery, now I dare say all those years a go they were pretty hard to get the desired dog as we know it doesn’t happen over night but these dogs have one purpose, they are a specialist at what they do, regards Wayne

 

[Waz77]

I get that with specialist breeds, I've worked with earth dogs and foxhounds for over 30yrs, but the versatile breeds came about by crossing different breeds to better suits their requirements. Just making the point. The Drahthaar didn't come about because people couldn't handle the Korthal etc. I think the problem in this country serious dog men mix in more underground circles due to the current climate of hunting and shooting here and the popularity of dogs as pets, you've got to find the right circles and the right dogs, some people think they have until they meet someone who really does have the real deal, usually the real deal are hard to find so not many people now what they are

 

[User00014]

The points made in the posts are rather concerning. The fact that there are many in the UK with little or no working instinct is shocking - that doesn't happen in one or two generations - that is a result over time. Perhaps buyer/importers haven't paid attention or even understood the exam passes on pedigrees. That does sound a bit of a mess.

The buyers /importers don’t give a monkeys left testicle about the dogs it’s all ££££££££££

has been for years.

something I will point out about the breeding of the BMH in the U.K.

My old dog Xena now 12 was a direct import from Poland (not by me!)

up to the point of joining the KBGS almost 6 years ago Xena was related to almost every litter advertised on the SD within 3 generations at one point I worked out over 800 dogs were related to her within 5 generations.

I have up following it as it did my head In,

I even approached the BMHS about the number amount of litters being with umbilical hernias, was kicked out the FB page and blocked that was 7-8 years ago

 

[sportingspaniels]

I get that with specialist breeds, I've worked with earth dogs and foxhounds for over 30yrs, but the versatile breeds came about by crossing different breeds to better suits their requirements. Just making the point. The Drahthaar didn't come about because people couldn't handle the Korthal etc. I think the problem in this country serious dog men mix in more underground circles due to the current climate of hunting and shooting here and the popularity of dogs as pets, you've got to find the right circles and the right dogs, some people think they have until they meet someone who really does have the real deal, usually the real deal are hard to find so not many people now what they are

Even in the terrier world it can sometimes be confusing to the newcomer. Genuine terrier men would never ever charge money for studs/pups/adults. But now some of the “also ran” lads with terriers have started gifting pups when ,in fact, their stock is worthless. I think it’s easy to say that if you can buy in a digging dog it is not the best Bred, or if you can get a dog for free off someone you don’t know well it isn’t the best bred either.