The Covid Vaccine Logic Makes No Sense At All?

[Freeforester]

The jab stops you being infected. Thereby reducing the risk of spreading it to others.
when you had Covid you were infectious and were shedding the virus, probably for a couple of days before you showed signs. This meant you would infect others snd increase the transmission of the disease

the role of the vaccine is to stop you being infectious to others and thereby control the disease. It is not the same as catching the disease and surviving.

Reduces the risk yes, but can you guarantee this prevents you from passing it on to others, because if you can, then you better correct Johnathan Van Tam for being a cockwomble in suggesting it does not prevent you from passing on the virus to others after you have been jabbed, as is being reported by the BBC today?

Ivermectin similarly prevents you from being infected, but neither does it prevent you from picking up the virus eg from a surface and passing it on to another person or surface, nothing does nor ever has. It also has the benefit of destroying the ability of the virus to replicate in the body, so if used as a preventative measure, you won't be shedding virus, because your body won't be producing it. Less virus in circulation, quicker recovery of normality.

We will have to accept the hands face space procedures for the foreseeable future, unless there is a total lockdown of everyone for two to three weeks, without exception - like that is ever going to happen. Why not try an ounce of prevention, as opposed to waiting until people are so ill - and having already spread their viral load - before administering several pounds of cure?

 

[big ears]

But the jab doesn't stop you getting the virus as you seem to believe!

Ok basic virus infections for dummies.

a virus is a protein capsule and within that is a piece of genetic material which codes to make more viruses. This is usually DNA but can be RNA, that but is not relevant. The virus enters the body and moves to its target area, this is dependent on the virus. Colds go to the upper airways but hepatitis would go to the liver. Once there it enters the cell and uses the cells internal mechanisms to replicate more of itself, these then spread to other cells and so an infection starts. Once the viral load hits a certain level the bodies immune system recognises there is some thing wrong and mounts an acute response by trying to attack the virus and stimulating the production of antibodies. This takes a period of time of hours to days so there is a period when the virus numbers are increasing and shedding before the body combats this. This is called the infectious period and varies from virus to virus. Once the infection comes under control the body switches to memory cell production so that if the virus is encountered again antibodies can be produced rapidly thereby neutralising the virus BEFORE it replicates enough to cause an infection. THIS is where the vaccine comes in. It causes the immune system to activate snd produce memory cells so that if you come in contact with the virus again you can mount a response and never get to the infectious period which then reduces the spread.
As you say having the vaccine doesn’t stop you coming in contact with the virus but will reduce the chance of you becoming infected so that you spread it on. THIS is the principle of herd immunity.

 

[Freeforester]

Some info about Ivermectin and it's benfits: no harm in being better informed about what is what, even if we may be none the wiser:

USE OF IVERMECTIN AGAINST COVID-19​

DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION DOES NOT CONSTITUTE MEDICAL ADVICE, AND IS FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED TO READ ON AND VIEW THE LINKS BELOW, YOU WILL REACH YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS ABOUT THE USE OF IVERMECTIN AGAINST COVID-19. HAVING CONSIDERED THE CONTENT, YOU MAY ALSO WISH TO SHARE IT WITH OTHERS FOR THEM TO CONSIDER.



'IVERMECTIN' was first developed in 1975 and until now, some 3.7 billion doses have been used SAFELY on humans worldwide since its introduction. The scientists who discovered and developed it were jointly awarded the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2015. It is in widespread use throughout the world, principally in developing countries, where historically it has been commonly and routinely used as a safe, effective and inexpensive anti-parasitic treatment. It is now also being used in both the prevention and treatment of Covid-19, including ‘Long Covid’. Its potential for this use was first recognised in Australia.


It is an extremely safe , cheap, readily available and approved medicine, and is used worldwide, daily.


Its wider acceptance in combatting COVID-19 is being held back, primarily due the inability to gain funding for more (and time consuming) Covid-related studies and trials. Because it is not a NEW nor any longer patented medicine, there is very little potential for profits to be generated. Many companies can and do make Ivermectin, there is no monopoly, and therefore no significant financial incentive for the big drug developers to become involved. Unsurprisingly, the news of trial results and information from leading medical professionals is being restricted, e.g. information and videos being pulled from internet platforms. As a result you will not hear about Ivermectin in the mainstream media, the BBC or from politicians. Most, if not all of the current research funding and practically all of the focus is on specific vaccines, even as the virus is continually mutating. However, numerous small scale trials with Ivermectin continue worldwide, and ALL show excellent results. This being said, the WHO are now considering the data amassed so far on Ivermectin used in the fight against Covid-19.



Depending upon your age and health status, the vaccine may not be available to you for a number of months. Over time, numbers of those without the vaccine will reduce, just as those having already received the vaccine will increase and undoubtedly start to become more ‘relaxed & mobile'. The risk of the spread of the virus will remain, and may still be carried and transmitted to others, even by those who have been vaccinated. It therefore seems that the risk to those without the vaccine could increase.



Ivermectin can meanwhile provide an immediate and lasting treatment, a 'shield' against Covid-19 and its ever-emerging variants, because of the way it functions, i.e. preventing the virus from replicating within the body; its anti-viral properties are well known and understood, yet few people outwith medical spheres are aware of this.



As with any treatment, early application increases effectiveness - and prevention is the ideal – ‘an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure’. This approach, however runs in stark contrast to the U.K. strategy being pursued, where you are a) told to / isolate at home, b) let it run its course, and c) hopefully get better, but if not, await an ambulance and/or your fate, all this before treatment. This seems to be a reckless and risky strategy, and places additional burdens on the NHS at a time of real crisis.



In the UK, Ivermectin is prescribed for the treatment of scabies & internal parasites in humans under the brand name ‘Stromectol’. Ivermectin is more readily (and cheaply) available in an oral paste found in routine-use horse wormers. It also happens to be the case that the dosage of Ivermectin for horses is precisely that which is currently recommended for human use as a preventative treatment for Covid-19. Products containing Ivermectin include Noromectin, Nexmectin, Eqvalan,etc.



Listed below are some of the videos which contain key information about Ivermectin from the world’s foremost experts in this field. There is much more material on this topic now as ever-increasing momentum builds on the successful use of Ivermectin for Covid-19. Viewing them may prevent you from becoming a Covid-19 patient, victim or worse.



PLEASE TAKE A PICTURE OF THIS INFORMATION AND SHARE WITH THOSE YOU LOVE AND CARE ABOUT. ALL AGES OF PEOPLE FROM 5-95+ CAN BENEFIT. THANK YOU.



IVERMECTIN AND COVID-19 INFORMATION



(10 mins) 8th December 2020 Dr Pierre Kory, FLCCC alliance, testimony to US Senate hearing on Covid -19 and Ivermectin:



(35 mins) 5th November Dr Hector Carvallo, Buenos Aires, on how he prevented Covid-19 among health workers in 3 hospitals in Buenos Aires, with 100% success:



(28 mins) 22nd December 2020 Dr Hector Carvallo, Buenos Aires, second interview re Ivermectin use to prevent or treat Covid-19:



(1hour 38mins) 17th December 2020 Professor Paul Marik, head of FLCCC alliance in USA, use of Ivermectin against Covid 19 (highly recommended viewing):



(3 mins) Prevent Covid-19 infection by taking Ivermectin:



I-Mask+ protocol for self-medicating with Ivermectin against Covid-19. This sets out the dose for prevention (prophylaxis): Search for 'FLCCC, ivermectin' online, or use this link below:



https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...I-MASKplus-Protocol-v8-2021-01-12-ENGLISH.pdf



See also FLCCC announcement: www.covid19criticalcare.com

‘An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure’​

 

[kenbro]

I joined a CV study (Novavax) and had a jab (Placebo/ Vaccine?) in October last year, then an other 21 days later.
After first jab, no effects. After 2nd jab I experienced aches (More than usual) and pains in my arms, legs and torso.
This made me think I’d had the Vaccine and not the placebo.
This week a received a letter inviting me to book for a Vaccine.
Spoke with study people who told me to book for Vaccine, then tell them my dates and one day before I was due for Vaccine they would unblind my study (Only the company running the study and not the people actually jabbing know who’s had the real thing or placebo) and recommend I go ahead or not.
Yesterday (My appointment was today) the Doctor in charge phoned me, asked a few questions, put info in a computer then advised me not to keep the appointment as I’d already had a weak dose and then a dose 60% stronger last year.
I then cancelled my 2 appointments, albeit at very short notice to the overworked vaccinators.
Ken.
This is lates advice....

 

[kenbro]

Just seen this on BBC TV, learn to spell!
Ken.
PS. Unless they mean ‘Keep 2 gas meters apart’.

 

[kes]

As far as I'm aware, both the Pfizer/BioNTech and AZ/Oxford jabs are given as two doses?

Oxford vaccine gives much greater initial immunity than Pfizer but both have been APPROVED as a two dose regime. Oxford is suggested at 60-80% after first jab, Israeli experience suggests Pfizer is lower than 30 % I have already asked my surgery and they will be using Oxford (probably logistics of transportation more then efficacy). Suits me as Daughter is now at Oxford.
Nobody knows whether the jab inhibits you spreading covid but to me, if you get covid, you will develop a lot of the 'live' virus rather than less if your immune system rejects rather than 'breeds' it. I am one of those who believes a jab will end this particular pandemic sometime towards the middle of this year.
I could be wrong but I'm betting my life perhaps on Oxford and not doing anything stupid after the jab.

 

[patrickt]

, as with adminstering the life saI’m curious to know how people will react when their medic turns out to be a Tesco lorry driver in a pretty uniform whose ‘seen all the videos’

I’ll go to the local surgery, or the chemist, quite happy to get it from my local vet

But there is a limit to just how far the NHS can be dumbed down before I dig my heels in

What if the Tesco lorry driver was the person to give you CPR and saved your life!!/ The deliverer of your life saving actions was only carrying out a well trusted method of live saving (an injection) in this case!!!

Patrick

 

[opticron1]

Obviously statistics will be different between Australia and the UK, but at present we have the highest number of patients with Covid 19 in intensive care on ventilators in the history of the NHS. We are running out of capacity...... therefore the more people who have a degree of protection thanks to the vaccines, this will start to reduce the number of severely unwell people that require ventilation. The vaccinated can still pass on the Coronavirus, but the viral load will be significantly less. Added to that, the median age of ICU patients is 58 years of age..... not 85 not 75, but 58years.... which puts a significant number of us in the "risk" group. So the rules stay the same, wash your hands, cover your face in enclosed spaces and keep your distance. This may also explain why "normal" flu admissions are down this winter. I am patiently waiting for my vaccine and at this time the boss is helping out our local vaccination team inoculating the willing recipients (in this case elderly and NHS essential staff). If you don't want the vaccine, fine, but leave those of us that do so we can think about a bit of normality in the future.

 

[opticron1]

What if the Tesco lorry driver was the person to give you CPR and saved your life!!/ The deliverer of your life saving actions was only carrying out a well trusted method of live saving (an injection) in this case!!!

Patrick

Agree Patrick, I've seen some disgraceful attempts at injections by medical staff over the years...... staff who have received rudimentary training are just as capable and will be working under supervision. I've given countless injections over the years and would be happy for any competent vaccinator to stab me!

 

[zambezi]

As you say having the vaccine doesn’t stop you coming in contact with the virus but will reduce the chance of you becoming infected so that you spread it on. THIS is the principle of herd immunity.

Vaccination is not sole route to herd immunity. Surviving the disease is at parity with vaccination: both mechanisms prepare the hosts immune system for subsequent exposure.

Herd immunity and COVID-19: What you need to know

Get the facts about coronavirus and herd immunity.

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[bowji john]

What if the Tesco lorry driver was the person to give you CPR and saved your life!!/ The deliverer of your life saving actions was only carrying out a well trusted method of live saving (an injection) in this case!!!

Patrick

It is an interesting question and one I've considered

I am aware of the abilities and limitations of first aid intervention having been a first responder and having done the Ronin (Remote area medic) course in SA (where we happily stuck needles in each other's arms)

A first aider is undertaking non invasive actions in an emergency setting and is very limited in what he or she can do

Doling out a jab is not an emergency protocol - the vaccine roll out limitations are in the manufacture, test and distribution chain, not needle monkeys

So I remain unpersuaded that there is a requirement for this task to be undertaken by hurriedly trained non medical personnel

If the pressure to the system were to suggest a need to go down this path then I'd rather be given the equipment and I'd do it myself or supervise my wife to do it on my behalf

Others might think differently (and if they do, who am I to say they are wrong) but I am not prepared to abdicate control and responsibility for my well being just because a Gov in crisis (and its servants) tells me to shut up and suck it up

 

[patrickt]

Agree Patrick, I've seen some disgraceful attempts at injections by medical staff over the years...... staff who have received rudimentary training are just as capable and will be working under supervision. I've given countless injections over the years and would be happy for any competent vaccinator to stab me!

I once gave CPR to an old man who had collapsed on a pavement, he was surrounded by about 5/6 other onlookers. I kept on giving CPR until the medics arrived in an effort to save this old man, but to no avail, how I wish I could have saved his life, that was over twenty years ago, and I still think about it, so as far as I'm aware the covid jab will not kill you... so what is there to lose, nothing, but if you don't get the jab, and you catch the virus, then you may not be so lucky.


Patrick

 

[Stalker62]

I once gave CPR to an old man who had collapsed on a pavement, he was surrounded by about 5/6 other onlookers. I kept on giving CPR until the medics arrived in an effort to save this old man, but to no avail, how I wish I could have saved his life..

Do not beat yourself up over this. You tried - which is more than the onlookers did.

In my time I have been a Medic and an emergency service worker.

During my thirty years as an emergency service worker I had occasion to carry out CPR on half a dozen members of the public.
Not only was I medically qualified but had also been trained by the Service to a fairly decent standard of First Aid.

I have to tell you that I had a 100% record with my CPR patients.

They all died.

The reality is, that unless you have a Defib in your pocket that is the likely outcome. If you are minded to have a heart attack may I suggest you do so in the waiting area of an A&E hospital.

 

[bowji john]

Do not beat yourself up over this.
In my time I have been a Medic and an emergency service worker.

During my thirty years as an emergency service worker I had occasion to carry out CPR on half a dozen members of the public.
Not only was I medically qualified but had also been trained by the Service to a fairly decent standard of First Aid.

I have to tell you that I had a 100% record with my CPR patients.

They all died.

The reality is, that unless you have a Defib in your pocket that is the likely outcome. If you are minded to have a heart attack may I suggest you do so in the waiting area of an A&E hospital.

A mate of mine is (or was at the time of the conversation) an A&E Doc

He surprised me when he told me that hardly anyone that arrives in A & E after requiring CPR survives

I asked him what was the point then ?

His answer was very good question

That was a few years ago - perhaps survival rates have improved

 

[Stalker62]

I asked him what was the point then ?

When I worked as a Medic, more than once did I see CPR (which when done as required is a violent rib fracturing act) on very old, very sick patients and asked myself that very question.

If they were "brought back" they often only lingered for another day or so.

Just because a life can be prolonged, does not always mean that it is in the best interests of the patient to do so.

 

[bowji john]

When I worked as a Medic, more than once did I see CPR (which when done as required is a violent rib fracturing act) on very old, very sick patients and asked myself that very question.

If they were "brought back" they often only lingered for another day or so.

Just because a life can be prolonged, does not always mean that it is in the best interests of the patient to do so.

Yes - same Doc said that the ribs were often like bearing down on crisp packets

I think I understand what he meant

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

just think yourself lucky . 'Utter disaster': Manaus fills mass graves as Covid-19 hits the Amazon a lot more are buried in poly bags in mud and covered with family members not knowing which grave is which! or marked at all.

 

[paul o']

Years ago an old lady I was driving past went from bent over to bolt upright as if she was hit b 2000000 volts , yup massive hart attack I thought ! and on stopping and getting to her side it was plane to me she had passed while on the way down , while others at the bus stop were holding there heads on like chickens awaiting the chopper ? I started in on air way clearing , having no bag or mask I still started a m 2 m etc then a skip driver came over and both of us worked on her funny both of us were ex Mod ? while he took over I was on the phone and requested the bells to get there I then change places , but we were both knowing its was in vain . I even had blowback from the old girl Yuc and thats not nice , once the fast medic got there we were done , he looked at us and said how long I said past 15? by this time we coud hear the flying med was about to drop in not long after she was off . Info given a hand shake and chat he said in a low voice she was dead before her knees bent but we had to be seen to save her thanks were given and I was late for work . later that day I had a call from him and he told me her hart had ruptured and there was nothing anyone could have done .

Now back to covid ? Just have the jab FFS weather it works or not , give it a try if you start to glow or your become a robot well at least you will have a good story to tell nr 100k wont ?

 

[zambezi]

When I worked as a Medic, more than once did I see CPR (which when done as required is a violent rib fracturing act) on very old, very sick patients and asked myself that very question.

If they were "brought back" they often only lingered for another day or so.

Just because a life can be prolonged, does not always mean that it is in the best interests of the patient to do so.

My wife was a lifelong NHS nurse, often working in critical care.

She often came home with tears welling in her eyes after a night shift in which she applied CPR to an older patient.

Her sadness stemmed from the trauma sustained by the patient: Often the CPR routine was attended by the sound of ribs or sternum breaking. If they did revive, they were poorly from the mechanism of revival.

 

[Freeforester]

Nobody knows whether the jab inhibits you spreading covid but to me, if you get covid, you will develop a lot of the 'live' virus rather than less if your immune system rejects rather than 'breeds' it

True, though few wish to recognise that Ivermectin, when taken as a preventative measure prevents the development of any live virus, so you cannot develop and shed any onwards. A noble thing to do. A safe thing to do. The right thing to do. Happily shielded myself, and likewise my loved ones.

Just off the phone with a fellow in Co Durham, one farm he shoots is arable, neighbouring also permission of his is a livestock unit. Arable farmer and family all down presently, across thenway at the livestock farm where the farmer uses Ivermectin, nobody is ill. Anecdotal, for sure, coincidence, or serendipity?

No interference with vaccine by taking Ivermectin, so nothing wrong and no downside with taking both, it's not an either/or scenario.