Caliber decision

[baguio]

Spot on! Just think how boring it would be if we all went for the same rifle, in the same calibre, with the same load, same bullet, same weight, same COAL, same trigger, same sticks, same bipod/tripod, same zero et al.......... The pages of this esteemed site would be totally bereft of sincere input, comment, debate, insults, accusations, rows, death threats (and worse) etc. etc. How utterly boring it would be! Keep the opinions and differences fire lit chaps, I just love it all.

PS
Now about all this Creedmoor nonsense............

WTF have you got against Creedmoors?

 

[Foxyboy43]

WTF have you got against Creedmoors?

Gotcha!!! Now is that input, comment, debate, insults, accusations, rows, death threats or worse?

 

[baguio]

Gotcha!!! Now is that input, comment, debate, insults, accusations, rows, death threats or worse?

 

[Sierra]

6.5x55 wold be my choice.

223 & 222 will knock them over fine, same as a 243 but the wider range of bullet weights available for the Swede and increased flexibility with non-toxic ammunition makes it a more logical decision to me.

 

[gixer1]

242 will be absolutely fine - if things change in the future you can always change it! A 243 will kill anything walking this island at the moment.

regards,
Gixer

 

[25 Sharps]

.308 all day long

 

[25 Sharps]

Ive personally shot every species of deer with my .243 except reds which I wouldn't hesitate to do tommorrow if the chance arised, so forget the .243 isnt enough gun theory.
I also dont buy into the .243 will become obsolete once the lead ban comes in idea eithier, the .243 is one of the most popular calibres in the uk and I cant imagine that manufactures of ammo will let that section of the market drift away.
With all that said though whilst the .243 is perfectly adequate we as stalkers arnt always 100% on the ball and if I was to be taking on fallow, sika or reds on a regular basis I would swap the .243 in for somthing larger (more than likley a .308 because I have a real soft spot for them) just so as I would have a little extra knock down power for when my shot placement wasnt bang on and the .308 does have that over the .243 ive owned .308's in the past and have seen it with my own eyes

It’s on my going to be an issue in Scotland where 100 gr bullets are required, lead free at this weight will be too long to stabilise in standard barrels

 

[25 Sharps]

.243 will work fine, seen as an acceptable 'first calibre' as well. If you have a '3' as the first number it can get some FEO/FLO's backs up (it shouldn't!).

A .270 will also work on anything in the whole of the UK. Some estates prefer this too.

If you want to practise and shoot targets occasionally, get a .22LR/222/223.

The 308 will tick all the above boxes but excel at nothing in particular.

One rifle to do it all is a bit of a misnomer.

.308 will do all quarry including fox it will also do target extremely well (it’s used in F class for goodness’ sake). Cheap factory ammo compared to anything in 6.5, cheap surplus for practice. Future proof for lead and up to 50% more muzzle energy than .243.

Its an awesome calibre, particularly Oreo a non reloading beginner

 

[Foxyboy43]

To return to your original question which seems a very long time ago - i.e. “243 or 308 with like for like shot placement?”. A well hit roe will drop with both calibres with either round. A poorly hit roe will not drop when hit with any calibre but if pushed for an answer, I suspect that the overall damage to the CNS caused by a properly constructed 308 bullet will lead to a quicker collapse after the initial dash. Helmet on, chin strap tightened..........
Nurse!

 

[bfltd0]

If .243 vs .308 is the choice, take the .308 and practice with it. You will get through DSC1 with it and, with the right rifle/scope/mod combo, be future-proofed for a non-lead stalking future.

 

[25 Sharps]

Had ex

I see it like this, if a man can shoot a 7-8mm intermediate or short action Carter’s of the order of the 308; that is what he should use to shoot deer.
The advantage is a bigger, heavier bullet that, should circumstances conspire” has the momentum and energy to leave an exit and hopefully a trail.

even something as simple and innocuous as the deer not being quite as broadside as you thought could result in a caught bullet with the smaller cartridges.

In short, don’t pick your equipment for when ever run into goes perfectly, pick it for when things go wrong.

had exactly this on a fallow pricket at about 80 yards. 6.5x55 120 gr pro hunter at 2860 FPS, got the angle wrong and clipped the rumen, bullet jacket lodged under the skin on far side. Deer didn’t make it far but had it been thick cover it could have been a difficult track with no exit

 

[JTO]

I have a 7mm-08 on order. I have never used one, but the more I read about them, the more I am looking forward to owning one.

 

[Dunwaters]

so what your saying maxwell, is you can go scotland and shoot a roe deer with a 222, but cant shoot a roe deer with a 243? i for one wont be going bigger calibre and i aint changing my present load no way.

Tis well known that Scottish roe are wimps

 

[25 Sharps]

I have a 7mm-08 on order. I have never used one, but the more I read about them, the more I am looking forward to owning one.

I have just bought one, I think it’s the smaller version as it’s a 7-06

 

[User00040]

.308 will do all quarry including fox it will also do target extremely well (it’s used in F class for goodness’ sake).

Comparing apples to apples (especially factory loads) I'd take a .243 or even .223 over a .308 for 'accuracy' out of an affordable factory hunting rifle like a Howa with off the shelf ammo.

Two aspects to this, first the human one.

In the prone position where recoil is most noticeable I would not expect someone to shoot 100 rounds of 150 grain bullets in a session out of a .308 sporting rifle for practise, heck even 10 might be quite an ask for some.

So, it also comes down to how accurately the person can shoot the rifle. So why punish yourself with more recoil?

Bringing F-class rifles into the discussion isn't really relevant for stalking (not sure if you mean F-TR or F-Open? I doubt the .308 would be first choice in the latter category).

But let's talk performance.

Apart from a possible wild boar, I can't see any disadvantages to using a .243 or 7mm/08 (which is used on elk for goodness sake).

I had a 308 and sold it because I could not see any advantage offered by the 30 cal bullets when compared to their smaller, faster and sleeker brethren.

Without going into mindless BC babble, the smaller bullets will leave the muzzle faster and hold on to a greater percentage of that energy downrange. Sure, at 'UK hunting distances' of 300 meters or less the deer won't know the difference, but why not pick the right tool for the job?

The .308 is a bit of a blunt instrument IMHO... whilst the OP asked about 'like for like' shot placement, I'd still pick the scalpel over the sledgehammer (and what sort of surgeon only has one scalpel?)

 

[25 Sharps]

Comparing apples to apples (especially factory loads) I'd take a .243 or even .223 over a .308 for 'accuracy' out of an affordable factory hunting rifle like a Howa with off the shelf ammo.

Two aspects to this, first the human one.

In the prone position where recoil is most noticeable I would not expect someone to shoot 100 rounds of 150 grain bullets in a session out of a .308 sporting rifle for practise, heck even 10 might be quite an ask for some.

So, it also comes down to how accurately the person can shoot the rifle. So why punish yourself with more recoil?

Bringing F-class rifles into the discussion isn't really relevant for stalking (not sure if you mean F-TR or F-Open? I doubt the .308 would be first choice in the latter category).

But let's talk performance.

Apart from a possible wild boar, I can't see any disadvantages to using a .243 or 7mm/08 (which is used on elk for goodness sake).

I had a 308 and sold it because I could not see any advantage offered by the 30 cal bullets when compared to their smaller, faster and sleeker brethren.

Without going into mindless BC babble, the smaller bullets will leave the muzzle faster and hold on to a greater percentage of that energy downrange. Sure, at 'UK hunting distances' of 300 meters or less the deer won't know the difference, but why not pick the right tool for the job?

The .308 is a bit of a blunt instrument IMHO... whilst the OP asked about 'like for like' shot placement, I'd still pick the scalpel over the sledgehammer (and what sort of surgeon only has one scalpel?)

Stick a moderator or a brake on a .308 and it can be shot all day long, if you can’t then you’d best take up crochet. If you think that .308 isn’t capable check out the scores and the groups the TR guys are getting at 1000 without optics, oh and they’re only allowed to use factory loads.

As for retained energy, going on factory loads 95 gr NBT retains 900 ft-lb at 400 yards, a 165 gr accubond out of a .308 retains 1800 ft-lb.

.308 dicks .243 into a cocked hat it’s as simple as that.

 

[muddy42]

I say the Original Poster answered his own question when saying ‘think a .243 is the sensible option for me”.

If focussing on roe deer only in Scotland (the OP’s stated quarry) there is a broad range of bullet weights available 50-100gr, lead or non-lead.

30 cal can have a fair bit of recoil, which affects everyone differently, but always detrimental to accuracy.

 

[25 Sharps]

I say the Original Poster answered his own question when saying ‘think a .243 is the sensible option for me”.

If focussing on roe deer only in Scotland (the OP’s stated quarry) there is a broad range of bullet weights available 50-100gr, lead or non-lead.

30 cal can have a fair bit of recoil, which affects everyone differently, but always detrimental to accuracy.

I really don’t get this .308 being heavy on recoil, fit an effective moderator and it diminishes, massively.

Ps where can I get some 50 gr .243?

 

[bfltd0]

I agree this emphasis on recoil is slightly tangential. Millions of our forebears went through 2 world wars and numerous other conflicts over 60+ years with bolt-action .303s that packed more wallop at the shoulder end than a .308 and they didn't ditch it en masse, saying they couldn't handle the recoil.

And when the UK military introduced a new calibre in the late 50s, guess what it was? Oh yes, a 7.62x51 (AKA .308).

 

[Mungo]

If you’re only (or even mainly) shooting roe deer, doesn’t matter.

Really, it doesn’t. Not even slightly.

As a wise friend (who is also a well known RFD) once said, you can kill roe deer with a well placed frozen pea.

The best advice I’ve ever seen when this question has come up is this: go into as many of your local RFDs as you as you can (or, in COVID times, phone them up). Ask what cartridge and weight of ammo they have the most of, and which they never run out of. That should tell you which calibre to apply for.