palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Or a tree to climb
Boar Cal
- Thread starter tony rentokil
- Start date
You are really tempting me to answer in the affirmative now with the amount of idiots about.
Anybody use the smaller 338s here? I've been doing an 'academic' / paper exercise on the 338 Federal for a quite different purpose, but was struck by its high (internal ballistics) efficiency, and that it seems a very interesting little cartridge, albeit pushed to its case capacity limits with most loads routinely compressed. Lots of good bullets including non-lead core varieties. At boar type ranges (and a fair bit further), external ballistics are very close to 308 in terms of trajectory, in a different order to designs like 45-70.
It's nothing more or less than a 338-08, a 308 Win case necked up to 338. It's the 21st century answer to the loss of obsolete American heavy woods game numbers like 348 WCF, but designed around the modern short-action rifle and magazine with a SAAMI max COAL of 2.820". For another 150-200 fps and a more comfortable charge to case capacity fit, there is the 338-06 A-Square, a SAAMI regulated version of necked-up 30-06 wildcats that go back to the 333 OKH which used the then prevalent 0.333" bullets before the 338 Winchester Magnum came on the scene, and was developed by Charles O'Neill, Elmer Keith and Don Hopkins in the 1940s.
It's nothing more or less than a 338-08, a 308 Win case necked up to 338. It's the 21st century answer to the loss of obsolete American heavy woods game numbers like 348 WCF, but designed around the modern short-action rifle and magazine with a SAAMI max COAL of 2.820". For another 150-200 fps and a more comfortable charge to case capacity fit, there is the 338-06 A-Square, a SAAMI regulated version of necked-up 30-06 wildcats that go back to the 333 OKH which used the then prevalent 0.333" bullets before the 338 Winchester Magnum came on the scene, and was developed by Charles O'Neill, Elmer Keith and Don Hopkins in the 1940s.
Indlovu
Well-Known Member
Hi from sunny Frankfurt (what a pleasant change after months of frost and snow!),
I suppose that there’s a wide range of calibres which, if placed accurately, will be immediately lethal. That said, I‘m no expert in this field, but perhaps I can weigh in with some background information from Germany, where many boar are taken and some of the larger-calibre recommendations originate.
Since we can always encounter boar whilst stalking, the debate continues as to the best all-round calibre for say a single-barrelled stalking rifle. With large forest cover, average shooting distances tend to be in the 80-100m range and we have little alpine (or highlands) topography requiring the longer, flatter trajectories of say a .270 Win.
But there’s more to it:
Over here, we’re taught to avoid the head and neck shot, because a slight error can cause an non-lethal initial injury that may be difficult or in some cases impossible to track, even with the best hounds. The margin of error obviously increases on a moving target, so the shots we go for again focus on the engine room. Secondly, we are taught to select bullets that not only penetrate, but pass through the targeted species, to ensure signs (hair, blood and perhaps bone fragments) that can be tracked and followed up, if necessary. With that in mind, let me turn to boar: compared to thinner-skinned species, they can be pretty robust; with age and size they develop a tough shield of hard fat and tissue to protect their shoulder, heart and lungs from injury during battles with other boar. This, however, is exactly the area we’re targeting with a shot (which has to pass through the body) and that’s why we’ll go for the larger (medium) calibres, with some preferring a faster calibre say .300 WinMag, for driven (moving) boar. However, many have found that a larger, slower calibre will impart less damage (meat loss) to a small roe deer, than say a smaller, faster calibre. For my requirements, my 9.3x62 and .308 tick all my boxes in this regard.
In summary: a purely local preference for larger calibres, based on local needs and some sound reasoning. However, since many foreign hunters have experienced their first boar hunts here in Germany, they have taken these larger-calibre recommendations home with them.
I suppose that there’s a wide range of calibres which, if placed accurately, will be immediately lethal. That said, I‘m no expert in this field, but perhaps I can weigh in with some background information from Germany, where many boar are taken and some of the larger-calibre recommendations originate.
Since we can always encounter boar whilst stalking, the debate continues as to the best all-round calibre for say a single-barrelled stalking rifle. With large forest cover, average shooting distances tend to be in the 80-100m range and we have little alpine (or highlands) topography requiring the longer, flatter trajectories of say a .270 Win.
But there’s more to it:
Over here, we’re taught to avoid the head and neck shot, because a slight error can cause an non-lethal initial injury that may be difficult or in some cases impossible to track, even with the best hounds. The margin of error obviously increases on a moving target, so the shots we go for again focus on the engine room. Secondly, we are taught to select bullets that not only penetrate, but pass through the targeted species, to ensure signs (hair, blood and perhaps bone fragments) that can be tracked and followed up, if necessary. With that in mind, let me turn to boar: compared to thinner-skinned species, they can be pretty robust; with age and size they develop a tough shield of hard fat and tissue to protect their shoulder, heart and lungs from injury during battles with other boar. This, however, is exactly the area we’re targeting with a shot (which has to pass through the body) and that’s why we’ll go for the larger (medium) calibres, with some preferring a faster calibre say .300 WinMag, for driven (moving) boar. However, many have found that a larger, slower calibre will impart less damage (meat loss) to a small roe deer, than say a smaller, faster calibre. For my requirements, my 9.3x62 and .308 tick all my boxes in this regard.
In summary: a purely local preference for larger calibres, based on local needs and some sound reasoning. However, since many foreign hunters have experienced their first boar hunts here in Germany, they have taken these larger-calibre recommendations home with them.
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Another hilarious thread!
Let us review the question in post #1 by @tony rentokil....
The answer is... No.
Er... Yes. What you need to know mate is that if you shoot a boar in the head with a .243, it’s gonna die quick smart.
The rest of the thread about driven game and being attacked and so on and on and on?
When we hunt pigs that don’t know we’re there, we head shoot them with a .223 or .243. When we hunt pigs with dogs, and bail them up, we shoot them with a .44 Mag subsonic 280gr, also in the head. Or stick them with a knife.
If you cock it up and the boar comes for you, it’s exciting.
Let us review the question in post #1 by @tony rentokil....
The answer is... No.
Er... Yes. What you need to know mate is that if you shoot a boar in the head with a .243, it’s gonna die quick smart.
The rest of the thread about driven game and being attacked and so on and on and on?
When we hunt pigs that don’t know we’re there, we head shoot them with a .223 or .243. When we hunt pigs with dogs, and bail them up, we shoot them with a .44 Mag subsonic 280gr, also in the head. Or stick them with a knife.
If you cock it up and the boar comes for you, it’s exciting.
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Zio65
Well-Known Member
Penyard
Well-Known Member
Hi Laurie, interesting that you should mention this. I have a .338 Federal that I had built on an old Sako 75 I had lying around. It has done everything I have asked of it very well. I am not a fan of the awful big heavy moderator I got with it and have probably not invested enough time to get the best out of the rifle as a consequence. I worked up a couple of gash loads with 210gr and 225gr Partitions when I first got it and went shooting. It dropped driven boar very well in Croatia but I have since changed to a .30-06 Blaser for driven, not because of any fault on the cartridge, rather I prefer a straight pull and found the Sako a bit slow to cycle when the chips were down. I used it unmoderated round the farm last 2 summers when we had pigs in the crops and, again, it did exactly what was required. I keep meaning to get a better moderator for it and then look at spending a bit more time on load development, maybe this summer?!
If Blaser chambered in .338 Federal I would buy one in a heartbeat and it would cover a lot of bases for me with the flexibility to change day and night scopes which is another limiting factor of the current configuration.
Not altogether surprisingly, .338 Federal has not achieved any traction in the UK. Licensing Departments take a bit of convincing and most UK shooters seem to want big, fast and flat magnums or opt for one of the very capable 9.3mm options if they want a thumper. I really do think the .338 Federal has a useful purpose for anybody looking for a woodland stalking cartridge when larger deer and boar can be on the menu. That said, I still use my .308 for boar most of the time but that is partly because I can mount a tubed NV unit on the dayscope but .308 is absolute top end for recoil on this unit which has already had to be fixed once.
Kind regards
Penyard
Robek1980
Well-Known Member
Head shot yes even .223 form 100yards but with folks turning up with .243 90-100gr form experience if you miss from a distance since boar has super thick skin with thick bristle like fur usually caked in mud .... i would be more confident that my 180gr 30.06 will topple it over on the spot.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
I'm game. As long as I can have a bayonet, too . . . .
Triggermortis
Well-Known Member
Complete with a leak proof nappy?
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
Oh he can definitely shoot. The stock I understand is overly long because it suits his technique, which he learnt by borrowing his father's rifles. I think more pigs are gut shot than people realise though.
I personally, though I have not shot anything like the number of pigs some has, is the 9.3x62
Scrummy
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
Hi Laurie,
It has been muttered by me and others that that 338 Federal would be great boar cartridge for the reasons you cite. The only slight concern I have is if the 338 bullets aren't often built to be a bit "hard" and more for expanding at 338WM velocities.
Browning and Winchester are quite keen on the 358W (308 case necked up to accept 35 cal bullets) and until recently you could get the 358W BLR (Browning Lever Rifle) in 358W here in Europe. I would think the 358W might benefit a bit more than 338 Fed with a greater range of soft vs hard bullets as there is still a market for 35Rem and 35 Whelen cartridges in the USA which have lower muzzle and correspondlingly impact velocities at hunting ranges.
The other problem with the 338s is our friends the NRA don't like them. Particularly not High Muzzle Energy 338s which start with the 338-06 A-Square unfortunately.
As purely hunting ideas, they are cool, though
Scrummy
Just so you know, DMQ are promoting a "Wild Boar Qualification" Sort of a WBC1. So far they are showing that 100 people have registered to take it. Not sure they have got things in place yet to deliver it though.
Here is what it covers: https://www.dmq.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/DMQ-Assessment-Summary.pdf
Wild Boar Best Practice to be found at Wild boar guidance, guides, management These seem to be OK to me, not that I know anything about the subject.
Where, according to them, :
Rifles
A rifle of not less than .270 Win calibre using an
expanding bullet of not less than 150 grains should be
considered the minimum for shooting boar. In much
of Europe .30 calibre (or larger) rifles with at least
180 grain ammunition are considered necessary.
Police Firearms Licensing Branches may require that
wild boar are specifically listed on an individual’s
firearms certificate (FAC) before they may legally use
a rifle to shoot wild boar. An FAC will normally only
be endorsed for shooting of wild boar if the rifle held
is of .270 calibre or larger. Wild boar will normally
only be added to a FAC if the holder has authority
to shoot on land within an area known to have wild
boar present. (see Firearms Law: Guidance to the
Police, 2002)
So, according to them, some licensing areas you must have a rifle specifically conditioned for Wild Boar, and good reason, rather than rely on the AOLQ condition.
Here is what it covers: https://www.dmq.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/DMQ-Assessment-Summary.pdf
Wild Boar Best Practice to be found at Wild boar guidance, guides, management These seem to be OK to me, not that I know anything about the subject.
Where, according to them, :
Rifles
A rifle of not less than .270 Win calibre using an
expanding bullet of not less than 150 grains should be
considered the minimum for shooting boar. In much
of Europe .30 calibre (or larger) rifles with at least
180 grain ammunition are considered necessary.
Police Firearms Licensing Branches may require that
wild boar are specifically listed on an individual’s
firearms certificate (FAC) before they may legally use
a rifle to shoot wild boar. An FAC will normally only
be endorsed for shooting of wild boar if the rifle held
is of .270 calibre or larger. Wild boar will normally
only be added to a FAC if the holder has authority
to shoot on land within an area known to have wild
boar present. (see Firearms Law: Guidance to the
Police, 2002)
So, according to them, some licensing areas you must have a rifle specifically conditioned for Wild Boar, and good reason, rather than rely on the AOLQ condition.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Typical shite from BASC then
That just can't be correct (not aimed at you Sharpie, just whoever has written that guidance). AOLQ means just that, I can't see how any force could complain, or suggest, that it would be a breach of conditions to shoot a boar if you have AOLQ on your license. To do so would mean they would be saying 'any' doesn't mean 'any' but 'some'.
Unless what they really mean is boar won't be treated as a good reason for anything less than .270, which would make more sense (from a strictly semantic point of view).
I would do that in decent light and range if I had reason to try . Bet I would have less chance wounding it that taking a quick shot out of easy range on an unsteady target in bad light . ( only with the right ammo mind you ) . Big hornet fan Inuit are killing bloody great big walrus with 22 hornet , caribou, moose and a fair share of bears ( polar bear even ) .Thanks for that Mike
Anyone fancy their chances with a .22 hornet against a large boar?
As always its tge shotvtaken and the calibrecof the nut behind the butt
Deutsch - Drahthaar
Well-Known Member
Ive had quite a bit of driven pig experiance and I personally wouldnt use less than 30 cal for driven now. This was a decent silver medal pig shot in the chest cavity which ran 50 meters after 2 x 308 was put in it. When it was caped you could see the extremely hard (almost like bone) fat layer of body armour protecting the chest which was about 11/2 " thick. This pig could take a bullet and I was glad it was running away from me. 
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The way I see it is that DMQ may have an aspiration that
Police Firearms Licensing Branches may require that
wild boar are specifically listed on an individual’s
firearms certificate (FAC) before they may legally use
a rifle to shoot wild boar.
May, as in are allowed to.
Who knows, with a bit of lobbying they might achieve that wish across all forces.
What next, I can see it coming, "well sir, OK you may have that big rifle, for deer, (assuming you can show us that you genuinely have a use for it in future) but we won't open it up for our new specific boar condition unless you have passed BSC1. Not got it ? Well ask again once you have".
"You want AOLQ as well ? And an open certificate ? Well, no, we don't like to give that one anymore. Too many cowboys have been talking about taking pops at boar with their .223s. Even Hornets, lately, even boasting about it and showing photos on internet forums if they've actually done it."
Turn it around, playing devils advocate. How would that be much different from the situation regarding Deer ?
You have to have them explicitly conditioned, for your specific rifle. Why should boar not be the same ?
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timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Oh dear!
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