what powder for driving a Barnes TTSX .308 130gr in a 20.5" barrel?

[alasdair]

OK, I've had a search through this forum and can't find the answer for my question (it could be there but I haven't found it).

I have a Sako 75 .243 and reload Barnes TSX 85grain in Lapua cases to good effect ballistically (accurate and fast) with Vihtavuori N550, but am less happy with their "dropping power" on Roe, compared to 100gr lead core (Sako Gamehead).
(Yes I have a tracking dog and but for him would have lost more deer - a 75 yard run in woodland at dusk can make it unfindable, without a dog to follow up - even then I've lost 3 in the last 2 years that I'm certain were hit).
So,
I have just acquired a Sako 85 in .308 to improve the "dropping power".
I want to stay lead free (or I'd stay with my .243 100gr Sako Gameheads!)

I have got some Barnes TTSX .308 in 130gr and 150 gr.
I have found recommended load data from Vihtavuori for the TTSX 150 gr using N550 as recommended powder.
I have found no suggested load data for the TTSX 130 gr with N550.

I have a good supply of N550 so will try it for the TTSX 150gr.

Does anyone have any experience of using N550 for the TTSX 130gr?

The TTSX .308 130gr is clearly widely sought after and used 'cos it sells out so fast in the UK!
So there must a body of experience out there reloading the TTSX .308 130gr.

If the N550 is a non starter for the 130gr, what, readily available (in UK, Scotland in particular) powders have folk found to work well?

I'm a hunter not a range shooter, but owe it to my quarry to be as accurate as I can. Apart from attempting a humane dispatch on a wounded deer, I am not a long range shooter. In woodland most shots are under 100 yards and on open hill 200 yards at max.

If the Barnes TTSX .308 130gr or 150 gr work for me then the Sako 85 .308 will replace my Sako 75 .243 + 100gr Gameheads as my "one" rifle.
I'd prefer to have only one stalking rifle (for deer, all species UK) if I can, believing I can learn to shoot "one" rifle better than swapping around between different rifles.
I'd also acquire a couple of factory loaded boxes (Barnes Vortex) as well for those places that don't allow home loads.

Thanks for reading the above and if you have any experience to share then even more thanks.

Alasdair in the snowy Pentland Hills.

 

[Alantoo]

I have used 3 powders with 130gr TTSX in 308W with a 20.5'' 1:11 twist Blaser barrel...they all gave sub MOA 5-shot groups...

IMR4895 H335 and the current powder I am using is Vihtavuori N135 which is readily available down here.

On Fallow, Roe and Muntjac at <150metre ranges 130gr have been fine.

However I am currently favouring the 110TTSX. Again with N135. I would recommend you look at the speeds and terminal energy provided by those unless your ranges are stretched out over 350 metres.

Alan

 

[Yorric]

Alasdair, Consider whether you're putting the bullets in the right place. If you are getting runners, a remedy could be the "hilar" shot which puts them down quicker than the conventional chest shot which may be through the lungs. Neck shots do seem to result in slightly more runners with solid copper bullets like the TSX , TTSX due to their lack of any fragmentation.
Viht N550 is a bit slow for 130 grain bullets in 308. You would be better with N130, N133, N135 or Reload Swiss RS40. All will also serve you well in your barrel.

Ian

 

[Mike L]

My tikka T3X, likes the Barnes 130gr pushed by vhit N140

 

[Steff]

Vihtavuori lists the 130 TSX in .308. It is the same bullet as the TTSX just without the polymer tip. I never understood what those plastic tips are supposed to be good for anyway for stalking distances.
According to Vihta's data N140 would be best suited. But I wouldn't feel comfortable with such highly compressed load. As Yorric said go for N130, 133 or 135.

 

[JH83]

I would imagine @srvet will have a typically nuanced view on this

Once he’s finished a nightmare extraction

 

[Totsy]

For 130gn Barnes I’ve used N135, N140 and RS50.
For 150gn Barnes I’ve used N550 and it was fine.
110gn TTSX behind N135 in my 20” barrel is my current favourite.

 

[Totsy]

Vihtavuori lists the 130 TSX in .308. It is the same bullet as the TTSX just without the polymer tip. I never understood what those plastic tips are supposed to be good for anyway for stalking distances.
According to Vihta's data N140 would be best suited. But I wouldn't feel comfortable with such highly compressed load. As Yorric said go for N130, 133 or 135.

Hi Rider, can I ask why you are uncomfortable with the compressed load?

 

[Selous]

I can stop mid extraction to answer this as I’ve just opened the flask whilst the old legs recover!
I haven’t used N550 with the 130g TTSX and I suspect it will be too slow so that you run out of powder capacity before reaching velocity.
I have been using the 130g TTSX for over 10 years now and it never fails to impress me. I aim for 3000fps muzzle velocity and can achieve that with N135 or N140, however the N140 load is heavily compressed and needs a long drop tube or vibration to settle the powder. I have also needed to go above the book max which I will only do where I have chronograph data and QL to assist. I got the best velocity with N135 and achieved over 3100fps from my sons 20 in 308 but that does have a really fast barrel with most powders. Charge weights with N135 are in the 45-46g range off the top of my head and this would be the powder I would suggest trying. H4895 was a great powder for this application but sadly now banned in the UK. Once you have a good load >3000fps worked out you can probably leave the dog at home!! I’ve attached a photo of my current view as it’s lovely !!

 

[alasdair]

Yorric : hilar shot is my choice too, but with TSX .243 80gr I was still uncomfortable with the amount of running compared with 100gr Gameheads
I don't attempt head or neck shots.

srvet : "from my sons 20 in 308" is that a Sako S20? (= a Sako barrel as mine is)

To all above many thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom.
Clearly - so far - N135 is the way to go and I'm pretty sure I can get that near me.

Alantoo - I'm interested in your opinion about the TTSX .308 110gr
what's the argument for the 110gr vs the 130gr? (130gr appears more popular?)

Should probably have said in original post that most of my stalking is Roe deer, but I don't turn down an opportunity on larger deer.
As I said before I'd sooner be a "one rifle" man, and have only one bullet and load for everything (or at least same point of impact without adjusting scope!)

Thanks again for your advice.

Alasdair in the Pentlands

 

[Yorric]

Alistair, Maybe also consider the Nielsen Sonic bullets. They do 243 & 308 options (Ben Heath distributes them in UK) They are designed to fragment at the nose at low terminal velocity but the fragments are big so contamination is not an issue as with lead options. Just drive them fast enough to ensure full stability in your rifle. ( they fly quick due to low barrel resistance I found when testing some experimental 100 grain 243 bullets in my fast twist 243).
Maybe with those you will find fewer runners than with the non-fragmenting Barnes.

Ian

 

[Selous]

@alasdair no it’s a rebarreled Tikka T3 with a 20 inch 1:10 tube. I’m not sure why but this barrel reaches higher velocities than any other barrel I have worked with, even longer factory tubes

 

[alasdair]

Ahh! I see. Not a Sako/Tika barrel then?

My Sako 75 .243 has a "fast" barrel too. By which I mean it shoots faster than predicted for bullet load etc., in a shorter barrel than the usual 24" test barrels. Interestingly it's also 20" I had it cut, re-threaded & crowned when I got a Lawrence Precision Nexus moderator fitted so it's a tad short of factory length.

I just hope the .308 with non-lead will be as good to me as the .243 with 100gr Gamehead (lead core) has been.

Thanks again for your in-put. I'm no expert at reloading so it's good to know their are folk around willing to help.

Alasdair.

 

[Utectok]

.308 ttsx 130gn N140 48.1gns and n130 42.5gns work up carefully but for me these are safe and accurate loads at around 2950fps

 

[Selous]

I’ve just remembered that I have some velocity data from my friends factory Sako barrel with the 130g TTSX. This was quite a slow barrel and using 48gr of N140 only gave 2910fps. I did get it to 3000fps (and found a node there) but it was a fairly heavily compressed charge.
By way of comparison my sons rifle gave 3031fps with 48.1gr N140 and my 20 inch 308 gave 2993fps with 48.0 gr N140.
Having reviewed the chronograph data from these rifles, I still think that N140 is a smidge too slow for 130g bullets in 308 Win leaving N135 as a better bet overall.

 

[Steff]

Hi Rider, can I ask why you are uncomfortable with the compressed load?

It‘s not that I am adverse to compressed loads as such. As @srvet has already explained it is more the degree of compression I don’t like.
So it‘s rather more a comfort of reloading aspect than a safety issue for me.

 

[alasdair]

Thanks again to all,
especially srvet.

I've located some N135 not a million miles from me - just have to work out a way to get it to me in Covid lockdown!

Alasdair the sun is shining but it's still cold!

 

[david1]

Interesting reading this thread, I'm in exactly the same posintion.
As mentioned above the TTSX 130gr in 308 is sold out every where, I have been trying all day to order some, which I have now ordered.
My normal round for my 308 and 20" barrel, is the 150gr Nosler hunting bullet, seated @ 2.9" and traveling @ 2825fps VIT N550 powder and dropping deer at crazy distances, I dare not say for the backlash and with little meat damage, in fact we put over 80 deer away to the game dealer last season and only one rejection and it wasnt because of meat damage or shot placement.
So I have ordered VIT N530 and 200 TTSX 130gr. My son has run some different powders through QUICKload Ballistics and had various results but the best one seems to be the N530 giving just over 3021fps but I'll need to expect a little less with my 20" barrel but might get close to the 3000fps. The other powders he ran though QLB were N133, N135, N550 and Ramshot TAC.
As and when I get the bullet working I will update with some results.

 

[Totsy]

It‘s not that I am adverse to compressed loads as such. As @srvet has already explained it is more the degree of compression I don’t like.
So it‘s rather more a comfort of reloading aspect than a safety issue for me.

Thank you, noted.

 

[wytonpjs]

Not much help but like #Alantoo, I’m using and very happy with a lightly compressed IMR4895 130gr TTSX load that I worked up and put to good use on reds, fallow, roe and muntjac (a little too effective on the latter).