Halal venison

[Woodsmoke]

Bear with me as I know this has been done before?

We've just waved my wife's aunt off after her and her 13 year-old granddaughter spent a few days with us. Her granddaughter's father is Muslim, and her mother converted. During their stay I was very conscious of the fact that the young lass was bound by Halal rules by way of her faith, and regardless of my own views on the matter I actually felt really quite bad for her at mealtimes. We had fish and chips one night, which everyone enjoyed, so that took care of that meal. The second night I cooked venison in Gorgonzola and cream which obviously she couldn't partake in, and last night I cooked grouse with venison and chanterelles . She ended up with bland Tesco spinach and ricotta pasta with a tomato sauce, and a Tesco cheese pizza last night. Now she's used to being excluded from a lot of meals that we just take utterly for granted, but I was wondering if it was possible for the likes of myself to render venison technically Halal prior to shooting it so she could actually enjoy it with us? Now I know full-well it makes absolutely no difference in real world terms whether it's actually been done or not, but it's an important part of the lass's faith (whether I actually agree with it or not) and I'd like to be able to include her more if and when they come back. I also don't want to hurt her family as they're now also mine through marriage! And I've no intention of telling her it's Halal if it actually isn't as I just think that would be dreadfully unfair . . . .

I don't want to get into the whys and wherefores of whether people agree with Halal or not, especially as where wild venison's concerned there's no relevant moral issues to be considered. Is it even possible for a non-Muslim to render wild venison Halal?

 

[Husky]

I have had Muslims out stalking and their take on it is that if the shooter says a prayer to God prior to the shot then it is Halal.
Their prayer went along the lines of thinking " I pray to God that this animal receives a quick death ".

 

[Fair Hill]

What is Halal? A Guide for Non-Muslims – Islamic Council of Victoria (ICV)

www.icv.org.au

 

[Mungo]

My understanding is that there is quite a few different answers even within the Muslim community. What some would consider halaal, others might not.

I think the only certain way of making sure the person eating it is happy is to ask them what they’d be comfortable with. They may not immediately know, but would be able to consult their preferred source of doctrinal guidance and get back to you. We’ve had to go through this with sorting student meals on field courses, and usually, if you lay out the options and the logic, they come back with very workable solutions.

 

[Eric the Red]

Great Question. My understanding is that the animal has to be properly bled ( I had an interesting conversation with a Muslim friend, who stated the throat had to be cut to do this - we ended up agreeing convention as opposed to part of the 'ceremony'- and further accepted that cutting the aorta above the heart as most stalkers do is actually a more effective way to bleed). The animal also had to be blessed (passed into the hands of God) as part of the bleeding process. The view was that it should be by a believer of the faith, but again I have no substance on this.
We also discussed the shooting of, followed by bleeding as the animal would technically be dead before bleeding, but his view was that this was still OK. So any animal he wanted a part of he essentially did the bleeding and the blessing.

So not a full answer but some of the way there.

Footnote: I see Husky's response while I type and clearly this is open to interpretation according to perhaps how devout they are. Wirth checking with the family their specifics I'd say - also respectful of the situation. Fair Hills link makes it pretty clear - and shows it is interpretation as a shot animal cannot be halal by that definition.

 

[Pete1774]

Bear with me as I know this has been done before?

We've just waved my wife's aunt off after her and her 13 year-old granddaughter spent a few days with us. Her granddaughter's father is Muslim, and her mother converted. During their stay I was very conscious of the fact that the young lass was bound by Halal rules by way of her faith, and regardless of my own views on the matter I actually felt really quite bad for her at mealtimes. We had fish and chips one night, which everyone enjoyed, so that took care of that meal. The second night I cooked venison in Gorgonzola and cream which obviously she couldn't partake in, and last night I cooked grouse with venison and chanterelles . She ended up with bland Tesco spinach and ricotta pasta with a tomato sauce, and a Tesco cheese pizza last night. Now she's used to being excluded from a lot of meals that we just take utterly for granted, but I was wondering if it was possible for the likes of myself to render venison technically Halal prior to shooting it so she could actually enjoy it with us? Now I know full-well it makes absolutely no difference in real world terms whether it's actually been done or not, but it's an important part of the lass's faith (whether I actually agree with it or not) and I'd like to be able to include her more if and when they come back. I also don't want to hurt her family as they're now also mine through marriage! And I've no intention of telling her it's Halal if it actually isn't as I just think that would be dreadfully unfair . . . .

I don't want to get into the whys and wherefores of whether people agree with Halal or not, especially as where wild venison's concerned there's no relevant moral issues to be considered. Is it even possible for a non-Muslim to render wild venison Halal?

Do they provide you with non-halal food when you visit them?

 

[Husky]

As an ad, When they got to the dead deer they placed their hand on its skull and said another prayer.
They had discussed their Halal requirements and wanted to cut the throat to bleed prior to the gralloch which I had no problems with.
They were also happy to eat venison for shot by a " non believer " because s they said all hunters pray for a quick death for the animal they are shooting.

 

[Woodsmoke]

As an ad, When they got to the dead deer they placed their hand on its skull and said another prayer.
They had discussed their Halal requirements and wanted to cut the throat to bleed prior to the gralloch which I had no problems with.
They were also happy to eat venison for shot by a " non believer " because s they said all hunters pray for a quick death for the animal they are shooting.

Interesting! I think perhaps the best thing to do would be to speak to her parents and ask what they'd deem acceptable. I've never really had much to do with them as they're my wife's side of the family and live a fair way off. Hopefully they appreciate that I'm asking out of interest and in the spirit of including her

 

[nun_hunter]

As said above I would ask her father what he believes is acceptable and ticks the relevant boxes. I have had the conversation above with a few Muslims and each had a different interpretation from what was necessary, ranging from a silent prayer as the rifle was fired to slitting the throat while he heart was still beating. Some being easily achievable and other not so (for me anyway).

 

[willie_gunn]

I don't know the answer, but just wanted to say well done for respecting their values.

When I go to eat with vegetarians I don't expect them to cook meat for me, because eating meat is not based on any ethical or religious belief on my part. If they came to me, however, of course I would cook vegetarian for them, as I know it is important to them.

As has been suggested, perhaps have the conversation with the father directly first. That way it shows the willingness on your part, even if they subsequently decide that, for whatever reason, eating venison would not be workable.

A thought this post prompted - though of no direct relevance - was of the couple of holidays we spent at Glenuaig Lodge, near Achnasheen. Adjacent to the lodge is the grave of Lady Evelyn Zainab Cobbold. She owned and loved the Glencarron estate, and the deer that lived on it. She was a very keen, and skillful, deer stalker. The reason I tell this is that she converted to Islam and was the first British woman to complete the Hajj, back in 1933. She asked to be buried amongst her beloved deer, and facing Mecca. Her grave is a beautiful and moving place.

 

[sauer]

As already said

plenty interpretations …. So as said already speak to father and ask what they deem acceptable … maybe a non Muslim can provide and have it classed as Halal … maybe not …. Different folks different interpretations….
Hats off to you for considering it & if that kind of attitude was more forthcoming might be about less Aggro between folks and different faiths …

And yes I have experience I worked in Saudi for 5 years plus

paul

 

[tikkathreebarrels]

I have had Muslims out stalking and their take on it is that if the shooter says a prayer to God prior to the shot then it is Halal.
Their prayer went along the lines of thinking " I pray to God that this animal receives a quick death ".

I have muslim neighbours who take a similarly sanguine view: I know this because I asked them and the outcome was that raw venison would be completely acceptable whereas venison burgers prepared by the local butcher who may have been handling pork would definitely not be okay.

I started the conversation because I'd wanted to bake them a cake and could not get an answer from t'internet as to whether hens' eggs are halal or not.

I'd ask the rellies and get their view on it.

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Back home in Africa,a musselman or Muslim would always accompany us out shooting buck if they intended sharing the bag.
It would appear that cutting it's throat whilst reciting Allah is great was accepted. Bear in mind,large and dangerous game was often involved so the being alive with beating heart bit often puzzled me.
Presumably it's the thought that counts.