Is there any real alternatives to swaro binos?

[Simjim33]

I can tell I am going to regret posting that!

A well put argument I thought.

I like the coalition you make between twilight factor and the exit pupil number.

The only thing that I would add is in your comparison you used binos of the same make. But that's a issue for the experiment.

 

[JabaliHunter]

I agree - those measurements can't tell you anything about which brand or model is better because they area based on magnification and objective lens diameter only.
Twilight factor is the square root of objective lens diameter multiplied by magnification; and exit pupil is objective lens diameter divided by magnification

 

[Simjim33]

We are now getting to the idea of the experiment for me. The question now seems to have evolved into.What binos give equivalent low light transmission to the user as the high end price makes like swaros? Does that sound reasonable to everyone?

 

[Redneck]

I have leica Geovids good stuff.

I also have a pair of shepard 8x42 i had imported from the States. they are japanese made with crappy case and eye caps but really good optics and very lightweight they cost me about 380GBP 6 years ago

Damaged a bit when i dropped them and thats when the rub came in, aftersales service non existant even though they have agents in the uk. very simple things to fix became a major issue.

Thats the difference with the European high end market. I think its true you get what you pay for.

 

[bewsher500]

I went with Leica.
I have friends and family with EL, SLC and Zeiss in a range of sizes.
I tried them all and plumped for some 8x42 Leicas that cropped up on eBay, guy was selling them having had them six months because "he didnt like the shape!" huge hands apparently.
I got them at half price and the ability to look through a wood at low light is amazing.

previously I only ever stalked on the hill and 10x50's were de rigeur

dont get too bogged down in matching your pupil dilation to exit image size, you should always go for the maximum possible if your are remotely interested in low light capability.

 

[mak]

This is where the twighlight factor number in the technical specs comes in. An 8.5x42 and a 10x50 Swarovski have the same (ok 4.94 v 5.0mm) exit pupil, but the 10x50 will have the edge in low light because it has a higher magnification and therefore higher twighlight factor (18.9 v 22.4). Using a different example, the 8x56 Zeiss has a bigger exit pupil than the 10x56 (7.0 v 5.6mm), but the 8x56 will actually have worse performance the dark because of its lower twighlight factor (21.2 v 23.7).

The trade-off for the low light performance, however is nearly always a narrower field of view and depth of field, as well as more lens elements and weight, and more I am sure!

Twilight factor is purely a mathematical equation and says nothing about the optical performance of manufacturers binoculars or scopes. As already pointed out the human pupil and the exit pupil of the binocular / scope plays an important part.

Twilight Factor for a 7x42 is the same as a 42x7, the difference is that you would really struggle to see through a 42x7 binocular (exit pupil of 0.17mm), but it does have the same Twilight Factor (17.1).

With all due respect and in answer to the original question, of course there are alternatives, to many performance is subjective, but when you work in the optics industry, optical performance is measureable, but whether the human eye can pick up the difference is another thing.

 

[Simjim33]

In response to maks post and his comment on the human eye. That is very true,it is a matter of subjection wether a human eye can see a difference in ocular performance. When the testing is done and the results are in I should be able to tell you what makes offer what in measurable performance. Then the rest will be up to the purchasers subjection( I never would have thought otherwise).

 

[ifitsbrownputitdown]

i've got a pair of Zeiss Victory RF's 8x45 absolutely awsome! much better then the leica's I trialed first!

 

[JabaliHunter]

Twilight factor is purely a mathematical equation and says nothing about the optical performance of manufacturers binoculars or scopes. As already pointed out the human pupil and the exit pupil of the binocular / scope plays an important part.

Twilight Factor for a 7x42 is the same as a 42x7, the difference is that you would really struggle to see through a 42x7 binocular (exit pupil of 0.17mm), but it does have the same Twilight Factor (17.1).

With all due respect and in answer to the original question, of course there are alternatives, to many performance is subjective, but when you work in the optics industry, optical performance is measureable, but whether the human eye can pick up the difference is another thing.

Don't disagree at all. But show me one actual 42x7 scope or binocular(!)
The point is that it isn't just exit pupil or any one factor - rather the combination of all the factors put together.
At the end of the day its still personal preference when comparing two different binoculars where the numbers are identical...

 

[bsa]

just come back from scotland with a mate he has swaros i have minox both 8x42 both brill in low light his near a1000 pound mine 110 brand new off ebay, just as good .don#t wast ya mony pall

 

[Simjim33]

When all is said and done I will conduct my experiment obtain my results and make a subjective choice based heavily on the research. This I will make available to every one so the when the new too stalking make your subjective choices. they can be backed up by some form of impartial research.

Now I have one offer of binos that's not enough for testing can any one help out?


I did think about going to the manufactures to see if they help but I Bet they will have no interest I helping with my little test.

 

[Simjim33]

just come back from scotland with a mate he has swaros i have minox both 8x42 both brill in low light his near a1000 pound mine 110 brand new off ebay, just as good .don#t wast ya mony pall

Thanks for that that plays well to my hypothesis with interest did your friend agree with your conclusion that the minox were " as good"?

 

[mak]

Don't disagree at all. But show me one actual 42x7 scope or binocular(!)
The point is that it isn't just exit pupil or any one factor - rather the combination of all the factors put together.
At the end of the day its still personal preference when comparing two different binoculars where the numbers are identical...

Exactly my point. There isn't a 42x7, but to put Twilight Factor into contex that it is a mathematical equation and says nothing about performmance of a binocular, except where all thing are equal and as I have a slight insight into the optics industry, each manufacturer has their own coatings, manufacturing processes, so a 8x42 from x does not mean that it will have the same performance as an 8x42 from y. Can't one just enjoy whatever optical instrument they posses?

 

[Philwilk]

When I was 'between binoculars' and saving up for a pair of Swarovision 8.5 x 42's I went to a birding bino place somewhere in the Midlands with a twitcher colleague and bought a pair of Nikon HG DCF 8 x 42's to 'keep me going'.

Now the Swaro's are bloody good and I wouldn't swap them, but the Nikons are excellent and probably underrated binoculars for stalking. They are a bit heavy but the optics are superb. I paid £525 secondhand for the Nikons so they are NOT cheap but I wouldn't part with them.

If that makes sense after one and a half bottles of very crisp Chardonnay!


Phil

 

[Orion]

If that makes sense after one and a half bottles of very crisp Chardonnay!

Now that would be my kind of comparison test!

Which provides the best clarity of (one-eyed maybe?) vision, Cardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc - anyone care to provide the equipment, hiccc!

 

[cammy567]

Bought a pair of these and can't fault them at the price, I would recommend them, probably worth the full price let alone the offer.

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/79048/show.html

 

[Simjim33]

Now that would be my kind of comparison test!

Which provides the best clarity of (one-eyed maybe?) vision, Cardonnay or Sauvignon Blanc - anyone care to provide the equipment, hiccc!

At lest the research would get a lot of volunteers.

 

[Simjim33]

Bought a pair of these and can't fault them at the price, I would recommend them, probably worth the full price let alone the offer.

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/79048/show.html

Shame your not closer we could see where they fit into the data.