Foxhounds uninvited appearance

[T.eddie]

I'm not sure if the death by a thousand cuts thing is holding water for this specific topic, in my own experience of talking with the uninitiated (of which I once was and still have many friends who are), fox hunting and pest control, deer stalking etc are not viewed as the same. Granted, my sample size isn't exactly massive

I actually had a similar chat with a bloke recently, he is vegetarian but understood why pest control & deer stalking were needed was less understanding of thr justification of game shooting but was accepting of the benefits of the biodiversity around the shoots but couldn't accept fox hunts in any form unless to protect chicken etc where fencing fails, got to say I couldn't think of any real justification for it either when there is nothing to protect

 

[User00035]

If you think the foxhounds disturbing your pheasants is a problem try having the staghounds coming through your deer farm! You can ban the hunt but it probably won't stop them. Shooting hounds as @VSS says is a good way to get their attention as is shooting the stag before they get to it. Ultimately they will be the authors of their own demise, times are changing and people will not put up with this kind of behaviour for much longer I feel. Mind you that could apply to pheasant shooting too.

Indeed. A tin eared dismissal of any criticism as the raving of antis, and a complete disregard for sound ecological stewardship or any acknowledgment that yours is not the only interest that counts in the countryside, is a sure-fire way to bring about your own extinction.
And when it comes to standing together, a prerequisite of solidarity is an unwritten code of conduct and a willingness to self-police. Closing ranks around blatant wrong-doing and irresponsible practice instead of calling it out from within before it comes to the attention of the antis, brings all of us into disrepute and does the anti's work for them.

"Divided we fall" is a meaningless cliche unless it is contingent upon the very highest standards of stewardship and good practice. If not, it will merely tell the usually disinterested public that we are all as bad as each other.

 

[Ade8mm]

I would add. It is not what they do (Hunt with Hounds) with which I take issue.
It is how they behave.
The two points are quite different.

 

[Ade8mm]

If I had land I wouldn't let any hunt anywhere near it. Absolute law unto themselves, has been my experience unfortunately.
Hounds tearing through woods flushing out every living thing with stalking and commercial shoots disrupted, holes cut in hedges, gateways and tracks blocked with vehicles, crops trampled, and laughter and the middle finger from kennel staff when you ask them what the hell they think they're doing when you find them in your woods on quad bikes without permission at 6:00 in the morning. And then the unwelcome attention of the local sabs and antis they bring with them.
And when they've gone, you get the wives of the London Ruperts who've migrated to the village from the city to live the dream, riding their hacking nags through the middle of a field of winter wheat, following the hoof prints of the hunt because they "thought it was a path".
Never again.

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www.theoldhuntinghabit.com

The case rests me ludd

 

[User00053]

not harping back to the past, but in my memory it seems last twenty years or so, complaints on hunts behaviour seem to be increasing with justification or have I got it wrong?

 

[NullMac]

Just testing the waters here fellow members. Our local hunt drew us on Tuesday, running through six woods along one boundary of the estate I'm employed on. Been told to stay off until end of pheasant shooting, I understand from the boss this was in writing too.
Needless to say, with five days plus beaters day left to go, I'm somewhat less than happy. Question is, what can we do about this, doubtless the boss will have his own way of dealing with them. Just wondering what you guys suggest, the pool of experience on the forum may well suggest something that we haven't considered.
Many thanks in advance for your replies.

Not support them next time we get this "all country people must stand together" bollocks.

It is a one way street ...

 

[Ratel]

For what it's worth here's my take on it.
Having been in and around fox and every other kind of hunting all my life since WW2 I have obviously pro hunting feelings. As a keeper it has on one occasion really p....d me off when a well known Cotswold pack ran through a drive between beaters and guns. The boss wàs a hunting man and the estate was a private shoot so no problems for him or his guests.
Hounds running through woods the day or a couple of days before a shoot make not the slightest bit of difference to pheasants, and I have had that happen innumerable times when working in an area where a certain "Father" of hunting held sway.
I keepered an estate where it was up to me whether I had hounds or not, and I did. I always had them twice for cubhunting, which taught the birds to fly a little and after the second week in January when I had caught up my laying hens.
The other time was when they met every boxing day at the local castle and we were the obvious draw. We usually shot New Year's Eve, but I wouldn't have stopped them as hundreds of people loved to go to see the meet in front of the castle.
I have only ever fallen out with one hunt servant and to be honest got on with the several packs I have been involved with. I've even had beagles two days before partridge shooting with no adverse effect.
However having said all this hunting has changed. As someone said Masters change, seemingly quicker than a woman's knickers and this is not conducive to good relations. There aren't the "Professional Huntsmen" now and many packs are hunted by amateurs or the Masters which in my opinion is not good. Gone are the days when the Master would visit every keeper and farm during the summer for a chat.
The estate I look after has banned our local quite well known hunt for not playing the game. They were warned not to go near the villages, so what did they do, drew a piece of rough on the edge of one village, found and ran through people's gardens. This obviously caused ructions and blame on the estate for letting the hounds come.
My conclusion to Rhodie Jess op is, if you get on well with your local hounds, give them a dogging and a warning (if that is in your remit), if they don't play ball ban them.

 

[baguio]

Whilst not ideal, have they actually done a great deal of harm. The dogs weren't hunting pheasants and partridges. I'm sure that everything settled back down pretty quickly after they left. Some shoots ban the stalkers until Feb 2nd and yet I've shot munties within feet of pheasants and the take almost no notice of the shot at all. Even had pheasants run up to me thinking that I'm about to feed them.

 

[VSS]

Whilst not ideal, have they actually done a great deal of harm. The dogs weren't hunting pheasants and partridges. I'm sure that everything settled back down pretty quickly after they left. Some shoots ban the stalkers until Feb 2nd and yet I've shot munties within feet of pheasants and the take almost no notice of the shot at all. Even had pheasants run up to me thinking that I'm about to feed them.

Whether or not they did any harm is irrelevant. Fact is, they were asked not to hunt that area but went ahead and did so. That would be about on the same level as me taking my rifle and going stalking on land where I had no right to be.

 

[willie_gunn]

Gone are the days when the Master would visit every keeper and farm during the summer for a chat.

This.

I started my hunting life with a pack of beagles. The master knew every farmer and every keeper in the hunt country. Going with her to the Kent County Show at Detling meant you couldn't walk half a dozen paces without someone coming up to have a chat. Never got to see the show itself!

Fast forward 30 years and we moved to the village in Oxfordshire where we live now. One of the masters at the time was a neighbour, and he was of the old school too. Knew everyone, and liaised constantly with the landowners, farmers and keepers. Hunt was mostly welcome all over the country.

He left, and now the masters and other hunt officials seem to change on almost an annual basis. No surprises in terms of the stories you now hear complaining about the hunt.

 

[Rhodesianjess]

Been reading through all your replies, thanks for your advice and guidance. Boss going to see Masters,joint in this case,in near future. Honestly think he's going to ban them totally.
Relationship between landowners,shoot leaseholders and our houndpack is not good. Damage to drilling,rides in woods chewed up,gamecover being ridden through, hunting where asked not to, the complaints are many and from all over their hunting country.
Personally not a fan or follower of hounds,keepering in Cottesmore country cured me from liking them! Actually threatened by hunt staff for killing too many foxes. You'll find one in your pens etc! However, just because I don't follow is not good reason to ban them.
Think this is the final straw for the boss, scaring birds that are part of his income not helpful. Woods and gamecover involved were all due to be shot next few days.
Keep you posted on outcome. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Taff]

I have run a pack of beagles through my pheasant drives, go back two hours later pheasants and deer are back, as to the people who posted they can see no reason for fox hunting, I see no reason for private ownership of firearms for deer control or fox control, all can be carried out by a competent professional in half the time, or come to that pheasant shooting, absolutely pointless who eats pheasants.
Think what you wish for.

 

[Ratel]

Been reading through all your replies, thanks for your advice and guidance. Boss going to see Masters,joint in this case,in near future. Honestly think he's going to ban them totally.
Relationship between landowners,shoot leaseholders and our houndpack is not good. Damage to drilling,rides in woods chewed up,gamecover being ridden through, hunting where asked not to, the complaints are many and from all over their hunting country.
Personally not a fan or follower of hounds,keepering in Cottesmore country cured me from liking them! Actually threatened by hunt staff for killing too many foxes. You'll find one in your pens etc! However, just because I don't follow is not good reason to ban them.
Think this is the final straw for the boss, scaring birds that are part of his income not helpful. Woods and gamecover involved were all due to be shot next few days.
Keep you posted on outcome. Thanks again for your input.

As I've said hounds never spoiled any of my shooting except for that once, and being brought up with the old feller having our huntsman (professional) as his mate probably coloured my views. I have whipped in and hunted a pack of beagles, ridden to hounds and been terrier man to a West country pack. The one thing we have in common is your dislike of a certain pack, and that being the one we have banned.

 

[Sharpie]

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The case rests me ludd

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Actually threatened by hunt staff for killing too many foxes. You'll find one in your pens etc!

So, they are, actually, intentionally hunting foxes with a pack of dogs. In England. For sport. Uninvited. On your boss's land.

Not simply exercising the horses and hounds over a pre-arranged drag trail ? Or flushing them out with two hounds to a gun. Or as big a pack as you like, to eagle owl, falcon etc. (But accidents can happen in such scenarios).

That would put them in the same moral and legal category as, well, insert your own pejorative adjective.

 

[Rhodesianjess]

The chap that puts the "trail" down must be a ninja,I haven't seen him on any trail camera yet

 

[JabaliHunter]

Get a horse and join in…

 

[Jon P]

Wire Cutters & Leather Case

Our tough steel cutters are capable of cutting up to 1.6mm of thick steel whilst on horse back out in the field. They have rubber handles for extra grip and fit very snuggly in both men's and women's hands. The leather case is made from thick dark brown leather and features a strap on the back...

www.theoldhuntinghabit.com

The case rests me ludd

I used to hunt a lot to hounds, I can say that in over 15 years I only used wire cutters twice, once was to cut a hound out of the barbed wire top strand as hanging like a stuck deer- fence was repaired immediately before I left the area- and the second was to cut some wire off cuts that had been left on a path that had got wrapped around a horses leg and wedged between hoof and the shoe- both incidents were on land we had permissions to be on-just because you have a wire cutter does not mean you cut random fences- I carry wire cutters out stalking in case I find deer hung or my dogs get hung on top strand of barb. I spent a few years as a full time fencer so easy enough to repair a wire fence.

 

[Ade8mm]

I used to hunt a lot to hounds, I can say that in over 15 years I only used wire cutters twice, once was to cut a hound out of the barbed wire top strand as hanging like a stuck deer- fence was repaired immediately before I left the area- and the second was to cut some wire off cuts that had been left on a path that had got wrapped around a horses leg and wedged between hoof and the shoe- both incidents were on land we had permissions to be on-just because you have a wire cutter does not mean you cut random fences- I carry wire cutters out stalking in case I find deer hung or my dogs get hung on top strand of barb. I spent a few years as a full time fencer so easy enough to repair a wire fence.

Good use of wire cutters.

However...

Having previously rested my case I am happy to reopen on this one.

There may well be reason to cut wire (fences). My post was in particular in response to Finches's post.

I too always take secateurs (capable of wire cutting) when I go on a stalk

I often use them to prune a branch or, if the Munties are not showing I take the opportunity to clear the shooting lanes.

What I do not do is take them (wire cutting devices) with me because I MAY encounter an obstacle for my horse or hound somewhere I do not have permission to be for which I may need wire cutters.

Are you saying a burglar should be allowed to carry breaking in equipment "in case he sees an opportunity "to burgle" - premeditation?


Same same

Mmmh


Aye. Ade

 

[Jon P]

Good use of wire cutters.

However...

Having previously rested my case I am happy to reopen on this one.

There may well be reason to cut wire (fences). My post was in particular in response to Finches's post.

I too always take secateurs (capable of wire cutting) when I go on a stalk

I often use them to prune a branch or, if the Munties are not showing I take the opportunity to clear the shooting lanes.

What I do not do is take them (wire cutting devices) with me because I MAY encounter an obstacle for my horse or hound somewhere I do not have permission to be for which I may need wire cutters.

Are you saying a burglar should be allowed to carry breaking in equipment "in case he sees an opportunity "to burgle" - premeditation?


Same same

Mmmh


Aye. Ade

same could be said for a deer stalker carrying wire cutters , like you and me, do they carry wire cutters to cut wire fences to get a poached fallow buck out of there neighbours land easier ??
You have the tools , does not mean you are going poaching deer? Why assume a horse rider will cut fences To access to neighbours land? When there could be a legitimate case for carrying them- I have used my wire cutters more for taking loose shoes of horses then anything else.

 

[baguio]

Whether or not they did any harm is irrelevant. Fact is, they were asked not to hunt that area but went ahead and did so. That would be about on the same level as me taking my rifle and going stalking on land where I had no right to be.

Not even slightly like it VSS unless you can confirm that the hounds knew that they weren't allowed on that piece of ground and like naughty kids they chose to go there anyway? Is that what you're suggesting?