Dumping of shot pheasants

[Foxyboy43]

Lets not forget that chickens are bred purely to slaughter at 6 weeks old having never seen the light of day. Those criticising game shooting but who then buy chicken from the super market need to look very hard at themselves first IMO.

Aye. I think this is a very valid counter-argument to those who buy their meat, fish and poultry from a supermarket. The vast majority of consumers choose to be blissfully unaware of the many varieties of “intensive farming” methods which keep the price of said food at reasonable levels - this is always an easy option for the consumer. Where we will never succeed is in convincing the strident animal rights nutters, vegetarians and vegans that what we do is acceptable - that argument will go nowhere, period, so why bother?
Maybe best we concentrate on making our pitch to the many who lie outside this cabal in terms of good husbandry, quality food and sustainability.

 

[Dunwaters]

Lets not forget that chickens are bred purely to slaughter at 6 weeks old having never seen the light of day. Those criticising game shooting but who then buy chicken from the super market need to look very hard at themselves first IMO.

True, but the chooks are raised and slaughtered under very controlled conditions and veterinary supervision with every effort being made to reduce suffering and stress.
Contrast that with a bird on a commercial high bird shoot , that bird gets forced to fly repeatedly over a gun with a better than fair chance of being wounded.
I’m not out to ban shooting but some of what goes on is pretty indefensible

 

[Phil fox man]

I can see both sides to this argument! on one side dead birds are a byproduct of a business and what business doesn't have some.but the disposal of waste should be done properly as all eyes are on us!
the other side is I don't like waste. when I used to go on small driven days and birds were left over when all had had their whack I was never shy about taking the rest home.i now don't go on large shoots as I run my small shoot and because of the bag numbers all birds are given a good homeI am not a holy than thou only eat what I kill person just my own opinion.

 

[Phil fox man]

I can see both sides to this argument! on one side dead birds are a byproduct of a business and what business doesn't have some.but the disposal of waste should be done properly as all eyes are on us!
the other side is I don't like waste. when I used to go on small driven days and birds were left over when all had had their whack I was never shy about taking the rest home.i now don't go on large shoots as I run my small shoot and because of the bag numbers all birds are given a good homeI am not a holy than thou only eat what I kill person just my own opinion.

just a thought! could they be treated say like tyres either take them home or pay extra to dispose of correctly

 

[shakey jake]

no meat is stress free and all sources have waste, look at the mess with commercial fishing and dead fish dumped at sea. massive publicity and bad press, shooting is only sustainable with as little waste as possible. if the footage is of breasted birds the keeper is a tool for not dissposing of waste properly.

 

[baguio]

True, but the chooks are raised and slaughtered under very controlled conditions and veterinary supervision with every effort being made to reduce suffering and stress.
Contrast that with a bird on a commercial high bird shoot , that bird gets forced to fly repeatedly over a gun with a better than fair chance of being wounded.
I’m not out to ban shooting but some of what goes on is pretty indefensible

Of course, it could be agued that the chooks are suffering for the whole of their lives?

 

[Cumbrian 1]

I worked as a full time keeper on a large commercial shoot when I left school and I also shoot 2-3 days a week all over the country. I have never come across the systematic large scale dumping of pheasants. On any commercial shoot there are two many people for gossip not to spread, and this is a very crowded island with few wild places left.

The antis have huge resources from volunteers, drones etc, and to my knowledge they have not been able to produce verifiable evidence of large scale systematic dumping of pheasants. If it was such common practice it wouldn't be hard to fly a drone over an area and see the holes and excavators at work. I can't imagine the size of operation to hide 500+ pheasant a day, it wouldn't be very covert anyhow. The fact the article mentioned in this thread is the best that the antis could produce given their time and resources actually gives me more faith in the industry not less.

 

[baguio]

no meat is stress free and all sources have waste, look at the mess with commercial fishing and dead fish dumped at sea. massive publicity and bad press, shooting is only sustainable with as little waste as possible. if the footage is of breasted birds the keeper is a tool for not dissposing of waste properly.

It wasn't the keeper. That was pointed out very early in this thread. Until now you're the first person to blame the keeper who's done absolutely nothing wrong at all! Where did that come from?

 

[shakey jake]

It wasn't the keeper. That was pointed out very early in this thread. Until now you're the first person to blame the keeper who's done absolutely nothing wrong at all! Where did that come from?

i saw post 16 and assumed the employee was a keeper, i should of reread the post

 

[Dunwaters]

Of course, it could be agued that the chooks are suffering for the whole of their lives?

It could, but we have to accept that every effort is made to ensure, in so far as possible, that the chooks are humanely treated and euthanised, that’s not something that the game industry can claim given that the entire thing is based on the idea that it’s “ sporting “ to rear birds and drive them over a team of guns with a low probability of a humane death and that the protein is a disposable by product of the industry.
I don’t think it’s the same at all.

 

[VSS]

Driven game shooting has just two legs to stand on, one being the massive amount of conservation work carried out by shoots, and the other being game meat going into the food chain as a healthy and sustainable alternative to conventionally farmed produce.
If you choose to disbelieve anti-fieldsports propaganda relating to wildlife crime (eg, raptor persecution) or the dumping of dead pheasants, that is of no relevance whatsoever. The fact is, many people do believe those stories, and it is the views of those many people, not the views of the few who shoot, that will determine whether or not driven game shooting has a future.
Therefore, it is beholden upon the shooting industry to not only stamp out those malpractices (if indeed they actually exist), but to prove irrefutably that that is the case. Opinions are worthless. Facts and proof are required, not just from a few shooting establishments, but from the whole game shooting industry, in a way that is transparent and accessible to all.

 

[Pedro]

So, this long thread started because some numpty of a person (beater, or whatever) took some birds at the end of a shooting day, breasted them out and discarded the carcasses down a disused well. Reprehensible and the shoot has cut all ties with him.

He's a naughty boy and deserves that and probably more. But it isn't symptomatic of anything except how silly that person is. It's sparked a (mostly) good conversation about the disposal of birds/beasts shot and the differing views on here.

I think the general consensus is that they should, wherever possible be used as food. Can we move on now?

 

[Malxwal]

Most of us could happily move on. It seems however some on here have a moral high ground and an axe to grind with driven shooting. Perfectly reasonable if they only ever shoot deer, birds etc to survive.

 

[glasshalffull]

So has my friend - even roe in a suitcase as hold luggage. I have been told that it contravenes meat import restrictions and that if you are caught it can impact on your fac. As late as last Sunday I had the most thorough check carried out on me at Cairnryan - glad I was meat-free!

Did you ask the customs officers if you could bring a carcass back over for your own consumption, as you could before and I've done it many times?

 

[Foxyboy43]

Did you ask the customs officers if you could bring a carcass back over for your own consumption, as you could before and I've done it many times?

It is not Customs and Excise as was, that you need to worry about it is the Dept of Agriculture (or wotever they are called now) Import Inspectorate that polices meat coming into NI - for fear of bringing in disease which could infect our animal population.

 

[Apthorpe]

Driven game shooting has just two legs to stand on, one being the massive amount of conservation work carried out by shoots, and the other being game meat going into the food chain as a healthy and sustainable alternative to conventionally farmed produce.
If you choose to disbelieve anti-fieldsports propaganda relating to wildlife crime (eg, raptor persecution) or the dumping of dead pheasants, that is of no relevance whatsoever. The fact is, many people do believe those stories, and it is the views of those many people, not the views of the few who shoot, that will determine whether or not driven game shooting has a future.

Only to the extent that one accepts the premise that anything can, or perhaps ought to be banned, if it is not either strictly necessary or sustainable. That is a very extreme position.

Therefore, it is beholden upon the shooting industry to not only stamp out those malpractices (if indeed they actually exist), but to prove irrefutably that that is the case. Opinions are worthless. Facts and proof are required, not just from a few shooting establishments, but from the whole game shooting industry, in a way that is transparent and accessible to all.

Do we really believe that? Do you believe that farmers have an obligation to prove irrefutably that the food they produce is never wasted? Do we believe that principle applies to any other field of human activity? Of course not.

 

[VSS]

Do we really believe that? Do you believe that farmers have an obligation to prove irrefutably that the food they produce is never wasted?

As a livestock farmer myself, I can assure you that the onus is on me to prove an awful lot about the way I produce food, the way in which I dispose of waste and by-products, and the way in which I manage the environment, with detailed records kept and regular, in-depth inspections by Trading Standards, Animal Health and DEFRA (or the devolved equivalent). This is a legal requirement. If food is subsequently wasted by the purchaser, that's beyond my control.
Why should not pheasant shoots, as primary producers, also be subject to similar traceability requirements and inspections? Would that perhaps go some way towards solving the problem?

 

[glasshalffull]

It is not Customs and Excise as was, that you need to worry about it is the Dept of Agriculture (or wotever they are called now) Import Inspectorate that polices meat coming into NI - for fear of bringing in disease which could infect our animal population.

Just reading the basc advice on this and what a shambles. I'll not be for Scotland for the foreseeable future then

 

[glasshalffull]

The British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) is backing efforts by government to challenge rules which make it ‘practically impossible’ to bring game meat into Northern Ireland.
Game meat, leaving Great Britain for personal consumption has fallen foul of Brexit, meaning Northern Ireland visitors to Great Britain must comply with regulation to take home their shot quarry. BASC believes the rules will significantly damage shooting tourism between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
BASC’s Northern Ireland director Tommy Mayne said: “These new requirements make it practically impossible for Northern Irish shooters to take home their wild game meat for personal consumption and mean that most if not all hunters will travel home empty handed.
“Thousands of shooters travel between Northern Ireland and Great Britain every year and these regulations are wholly disruptive to shooting tourism, overly burdensome and needlessly bureaucratic.”
BASC has written to the Norther Ireland’s Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs, Edwin Poots MLA, and he has, in turn, contacted the European Commission.
In a written reply to BASC, Minister Poots said: “I have written to the European Commission highlighting the requirements associated with Export Health Certificates (EHC) and requested that consideration be given to mitigations for these rules where possible.”
As a result of the EU Withdrawal Agreement and the NI Protocol, the Department of Agriculture Environment and Rural Affairs (DAERA) is required to carry out checks on meat entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain, in line with EU law.
Anyone wishing to bring dead wild game into Northern Ireland must first have it inspected in Great Britain by an Official Veterinarian who, when satisfied, will issue an EHC. To satisfy the requirement of the EHC, the meat must have been processed in an establishment approved for export to the EU and which is listed on the European Commission website. The EHC must accompany the meat to the Border Control Post (BCP) in Northern Ireland. The BCP must be notified of the intended arrival a minimum of 24 hours in advance and a failure to declare the consignment would be an offence.
BASC is also working closely with the European Federation for Hunting and Conservation (FACE) to raise the issue with the EU Commission.
Mr Mayne added: “There are a number of significant issues for the shooting community falling out of Brexit, game meat for personal consumption is just one of them. BASC is fighting these issues at every turn.

What a f....ng shambles

 

[Foxyboy43]

It is not Customs and Excise as was, that you need to worry about it is the Dept of Agriculture (or wotever they are called now) Import Inspectorate that polices meat coming into NI - for fear of bringing in disease which could infect our animal population.

A right up to the minute update - watch this space!
https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-n...to-agri-food-checks-at-nations-ports-12531285Brexit: Northern Ireland minister says he has ordered halt to agri-food checks at nation's ports