Risk of holding unlicensed firearms, what would you do?

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C1CRM

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Having earlier sent off my renewal applications & medical form in a timely fashion, because time was running out I emailed my firearms department to ask whether it was prudent for them to issue an extension. The reply informed me that my new licenses had been granted and that I should receive a visit from my FEO some 5 days before my licenses expire (tomorrow 7th June). Last Wednesday I sent a further email because time was growing short with the Queen's Jubilee bank holidays and the weekend ahead that only left today and tomorrow Tuesday the 7th for the visit to take place. That Wednesday afternoon I received a phone call from Firearms informing me that there was no need for concern as my new licenses had been issued pending the FEO's visit and this was normal procedure that normally I would be able to read about on their website though it doesn't currently exist on their new website. Apparently my FEO was on holiday last week and this procedure of issuing licences prior to the FEO's visit is for exactly this type of occurrence. Consequently last Wednesday I felt somewhat reassured. Today (still haven't heard from my FEO) I feel less confident about the situation. In the event that I sit and wait for the eventual visit to take place (probably after the 7th) if the FEO decides that for whatever reason I am unfit to hold firearms then from that moment my licenses will have been revoked, although I'm sure that technically If I can't produce in date licenses then as of midnight tomorrow I will be illegally in possession of firearms and shotguns from midnight on the 7th anyway.

In my situation would you;

a) Go with the flow because the firearms department told you that matters where in hand and there was no need for concern, or

b) Take your firearms and shotguns to your RFD for safe keeping first thing in the morning?

Your replies would be greatly appreciated especially from folk who have had similar experiences
 
If I were in your situation I would be content if I had received confirmation in writing (including email) that me FAC had been renewed.

It doesn’t actually need to be in your hand for you to have one.

You must do as you feel appropriate though.
 
ask for an e-mail confirming the renewal has been carried out and is in the firearms department hands and as such they can confirm you are legally entitled to hold your firearms etc <but you wont be able to buy any ammunition>
 
Whilst a Chief Constable may not make up their own law they would here have caused you to believe that you were in lawful possession in that your application was not advised as being sent in "late" therefore as far as I recall where such a renewal application was done "within time" then any expired certificate is automatically extended by eight weeks. Which latter is the law - Policing and Crime Act 2017 and not the discretion of your Chief Constable.
 
I somehow can't see the police taking you to court for not having a certificate when it was them that actually told you that they have renewed your certificate. Apart from anything else, that would be most embarrassing for them.

Is it just me that thinks things are a bit back to front when they renew your certificate but then the FEO pays a visit?
 
If your application for renewal was received at least 8 weeks before expiry of your current certificate then, as Enfield Spares says, you should benefit from the 8 week extension, however this should be confirmed in writing by your Licensing Authority. What I find objectionable is the assurance that your certificates have already been issued pending the FEO visit. This is a nefarious practice undertaken by some Licensing Authorities whereby certificates are printed out on receipt of the applicants renewals, then retained pending final decision. This practice is then reflected within the NFLMS database which shows the renewal was received, enquiries made, and the certificate issued within reasonable timescales.
 
Thank you all for such a quick responses especially to Endfieldspares for including the link. Its plain that in all good faith on the part of the police matters are in hand and presumably they would have not issued the renewals currently held internally had there been any doubt. However, how do you think events would unfold should the FEO decide that I am unfit to hold firearms and choses not to hand over my recently printed licenses when the visit eventually takes place? BTW my RFD thinks when the time comes it'll just be a matter of saying hello and handing over my new licenses.
 
C1CRM said:
Having earlier sent off my renewal applications & medical form in a timely fashion, because time was running out I emailed my firearms department to ask whether it was prudent for them to issue an extension. The reply informed me that my new licenses had been granted and that I should receive a visit from my FEO some 5 days before my licenses expire (tomorrow 7th June). Last Wednesday I sent a further email because time was growing short with the Queen's Jubilee bank holidays and the weekend ahead that only left today and tomorrow Tuesday the 7th for the visit to take place. That Wednesday afternoon I received a phone call from Firearms informing me that there was no need for concern as my new licenses had been issued pending the FEO's visit and this was normal procedure that normally I would be able to read about on their website though it doesn't currently exist on their new website. Apparently my FEO was on holiday last week and this procedure of issuing licences prior to the FEO's visit is for exactly this type of occurrence. Consequently last Wednesday I felt somewhat reassured. Today (still haven't heard from my FEO) I feel less confident about the situation. In the event that I sit and wait for the eventual visit to take place (probably after the 7th) if the FEO decides that for whatever reason I am unfit to hold firearms then from that moment my licenses will have been revoked, although I'm sure that technically If I can't produce in date licenses then as of midnight tomorrow I will be illegally in possession of firearms and shotguns from midnight on the 7th anyway.

In my situation would you;

a) Go with the flow because the firearms department told you that matters where in hand and there was no need for concern, or

b) Take your firearms and shotguns to your RFD for safe keeping first thing in the morning?

Your replies would be greatly appreciated especially from folk who have had similar experiences
Click to expand...
In your circumstances the automatic 8 week extension applies.
Keep hold of, and keep using your guns.

Cheers

Bruce
 
Oracle said:
If your application for renewal was received at least 8 weeks before expiry of your current certificate then, as Enfield Spares says, you should benefit from the 8 week extension, however this should be confirmed in writing by your Licensing Authority.
Click to expand...
What he says above...see Clause 7 of the "Order" I linked to:

7. Changes have been made to the National Firearms Licensing Management System (NFLMS) to support the administration of this provision and to facilitate police forces generating a confirmatory letter to applicants who benefit from an extension under section 28B.
Click to expand...
 
I am in the same situation, all visits done etc after they received doctors cert. FAC expired last night. Phoned and left message, confirmed it by e mail to FEO. No answer as yet.
 
Hmmm, I asked specifically about an extension only a couple of weeks ago, the reply only confirmed that the licenses had been renewed. I have no written confirmation about an extension being granted. I think I'll pen a further email asking for confirmation of an extension under section 28B
 
I have put my renewal in including medical form completed 14 weeks early to hopefully stop this sort of thing happening to me. But I’m not holding my breath.
 
To be honest I’m confused and at best intrigued by this submitting early approach as what happens if every certificate holder complies with the so-called “8-Week Rule”? It surely can’t be speeding up the renewal process and if it is so intended then it must rely on a percentage of non-compliant applicants being held to account for their failure in this regard?

If there were really a desire to get on top of this frustrating and frankly crass situation it would surely start with deploying the resources to permit informing existing FAC holders that they should expect a home visit 8-Weeks in advance of the renewal date and at which key considerations are discussed with one’s FEO, agreed and committed to record so one’s subsequent written application mirrors that agreed.

Thus ensuring no misinterpretation by those within the FLD when printing each Certificate.

K
 
There is no requirement for the police to inform an applicant that their certificate(s) have been automatically extended
As long as the police have all the relevant paperwork from the applicant no less than 8 weeks before the certificate(s) expire, the 8 week extension to the certificate(s) is automatic as per section 28B of the 1968 Firearms Act

Firearms Act 1968

An Act to consolidate the Firearms Acts 1937 and 1965, the Air Guns and Shot Guns, etc. , Act 1962, Part V of the Criminal Justice Act 1967 and certain enactments amending the Firearms Act 1937.
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
This from the HO Guidance to Chief Police Officers on Firearms licensing
6.4 In the case of firearms and shotguns, section 28B of the 1968 Act provides for a certificate to be automatically extended for a maximum period of 8 weeks following the expiry of the certificate. This extension will apply when the application for renewal has been made at least 8 weeks before the original date of expiry of the certificate. The chief officer should endeavour to make a decision on the application for renewal in the extended period. In the event of an extension, the applicant will remain entitled to possess, purchase and acquire firearms and ammunition as per the conditions of the certificate. Chief officers should facilitate this extended entitlement by providing an applicant with evidence that the certificate benefits from automatic extension, for example by issuing an acknowledgement of receipt detailing the eligible application as “timely”.

Note the word "SHOULD" as opposed to "SHALL"

Cheers

Bruce
 
Pedro said:
I somehow can't see the police taking you to court for not having a certificate when it was them that actually told you that they have renewed your certificate. Apart from anything else, that would be most embarrassing for them.
Click to expand...
They would be an accessory to the crime they reported to the DPP.
 
Had the same thing happen to me. Everything was done my end in a timely manner cert was running out. BASC to give them there due got straight on it. Had an email from the FLO saying it had been approved just basically needed printing off and posting consequently this was sufficient. I didn’t prod further and cert arrived a few days later was all fairly straightforward.
 
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