Devon and Cornwall Firearms Plymouth inquest.

Well I mean stricter as in more scrutiny with medical records, should not affect most people assuming they have clean bills of physical and mental health.
Arguably excessive strictness of the existing controls at the time was part of the problem. Whenever tragedies of this type happen and the police are found to have done or failed to do something, everybody (with brains turned off and knee-jerk reflax firing) immediately presumes that the rules and procedures were insufficient. It is more likely that they were too stringent and hence kept officers busy dealing with onerous bureaucratic procedures and box ticking, which left them with no time to consider or investigate actual risks properly and diligently. There's no reasonable point for having a Dartmoor farmer subject to the same level of scrutiny as an urban youth with mental problems, history of alleged violence and wanting to own "assault style" shotguns. Rather than applying ever-increasing scrutiny to everyone, it is better and safer to have a system which focusses on real rather than theoretical risks. I have a degree of sympathy for the officers responsible for giving him his certificate back, because I think they were operating in a badly designed framework which produces too much noise and too little intelligence.
It's impossible to avert every tragic multiple murder, whether with guns, or other methods. However, it didn't take Sherlock Holmes to realise there was something a bit off about that man, even a glance at him was alarming enough.

Agreed it's likely there will be hefty charges for someone senior within the department. Does seem evident there were some big failures with process.
Nobody senior in the Police is going to stand trial charged with anything. There is no accountability at all in the senior levels of the Police.
 
Nobody senior in the Police is going to stand trial charged with anything. There is no accountability at all in the senior levels of the Police.

certainly appears that way otherwise the Chief Constable would have done the honourable thing and resigned by now.
 
Another tragic incident that'll no doubt put things further under scrutiny.

Sky News
This highlights some of the problems, this man, highly educated, a good home etc, would be the last you would expect to do this sort of thing (if indeed he did do it), and it needs to be understood, anyone can break lose their temper etc, whether you look strange or not, I think the police were contacted before the incident. But it is hard for them to act, especially in domestics, unless there were prior incidents, But could anyone have foreseen this tragedy, what would drive a man/woman to kill their own child?
Someone mentioned less attention should be on Farmers, yet farmers account for 1% of all suicides, many by shotgun. Mental problems and stress can happen within an instant, and not follow a pattern where the unexpected can be seen beforehand. We are all vulnerable to breaking as some point.
 
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There's no reasonable point for having a Dartmoor farmer subject to the same level of scrutiny as an urban youth with mental problems, history of alleged violence and wanting to own "assault style" shotguns. Rather than applying ever-increasing scrutiny to everyone

That soundbite sums it really.
 
Accountability, Accountability, Accountability.
Or should it be training, training, training, both would be a good start .
As many have mentioned - a good case for Corporate Manslaughter - there was clearly a 'directing mind' - the e-mail trail would be a good beginning...........................................

How must the relatives feel after these disclosures ? A case for a private prosecution but who would pursue when all is already lost ?
 
Agreed, should have worded that better perhaps. I know of many people with disabilities and they shoot well. Apologies if any offence was caused, certainly not intended.
No offence taken Steve. I have this week heard from D&C FLO about my renewal (expired 06/22--now on temp permit) and I was asked about any medication or health conditions. I explained that I was treated for Cancer in 2021 and now have a permanent Colostomy and don't consider myself as disabled. I could almost hear (over the phone) the pen scribbling on my application!!:-|:-|
It wasn't mentioned when she came to inspect my guns and cabinet. Guns fine but not so the cabinet which I've had for over 30 years--apparently it no longer meets the present regulations.:oops:
 
i have a 30 plus year old cabinet, never been an issue at renewal, also covered in colt, s&w, winchester etc stickers 😊

Ask her where in the regulations she is referring too.
 
i have a 30 plus year old cabinet, never been an issue at renewal, also covered in colt, s&w, winchester etc stickers 😊

Ask her where in the regulations she is referring too.
What regulations? It's not even a regulation that you have to have a cabinet.
My cabinet has 2 external padlocks plus one internal lock but the padlocks don't come up to D&C requirements.
To buy padlocks to meet their satisfaction would have cost £100-£150. I can't be arsed to argue the toss so I've bought a s/hand cabinet for £50
 
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My cabinet has 2 external padlocks plus one internal lock but the padlocks don't come up to D&C requirements.
To buy padlocks to meet their satisfaction would have cost £100-£150. I can't be arsed to argue the toss so I've bought a s/hand cabinet for £50
mine also two external padlocks but they are chub good quality locks, but no match for an angle grinder but then neither would a modern cabinet be.

If they want to open them they will.
 
There is no accountability at all in the senior levels of the Police.

Doesn't surprise me, this country if full to the brim of senior type teflon leeches, from grass root councils to the Royal family, great lesson there for the children of today dont you think?

And they wonder why the youth of today are aggressive wanna to be gangsters.... 🙄
 
cabinet which I've had for over 30 years--apparently it no longer meets the present regulations.

At the time of my last renewal, the FEO stated that the revised departmental guidance was to apply the BS criteria recommendation laid out in the Firearms Security Handbook 2020 [updated 2021]. Retrospectively where approval for lesser boxes had been granted before.

In part 2 of the FSH it states that the gun cabinet should be built to BS7558 standard. I am sure that all sold in the U.K. will meet that standard.

Presumably manufacturers will apply that kitemark. What seems wise in advance of any FEO visit would to be to locate the kitemark and, if not visible, to get a print out from the maker's website affirming same.



Gun_cabinet_BS7558_per_Firearms_Security_Handbook.webp

 
Not quite sure what physical health has to do with anything, many disabled and unwell people shoot. That is one of the good points about shooting. It is accessible to all
Well now...who would have believed it?

Unknown-33.webp &Unknown-34.webp& Me agreeing with TH4 on anything ...
 
Has corporate manslaughter been tried on America? It would certainly make the police pay attention.
Corporate manslaughter has been used here against officials from companies , like the railways and folks that have gone down for it ! I have used it once when an Electricity company refused to replace the " lead wiring " to my meter from the pole. Quick call to the main mans sectary for his full given name title etc, etc To lodge with the family solicitors just in case there was an accident and 5 mins later! (after a little giggle from the secretary) he was denying it was his decision and he was arranging the job to be done the very next day . The head surveyor said " this had to be done" at his visit but it was blocked by the very fella who jumped to it . Funny how people jump when you put their head near the chopping block of provable liability!
BTW i didn't have a family Solicitor at the time , i do now though thanks to my eldest daughters fella. The world should not be like this but it is !
 
At the time of my last renewal, the FEO stated that the revised departmental guidance was to apply the BS criteria recommendation laid out in the Firearms Security Handbook 2020 [updated 2021]. Retrospectively where approval for lesser boxes had been granted before.

In part 2 of the FSH it states that the gun cabinet should be built to BS7558 standard. I am sure that all sold in the U.K. will meet that standard.

Presumably manufacturers will apply that kitemark. What seems wise in advance of any FEO visit would to be to locate the kitemark and, if not visible, to get a print out from the maker's website affirming same.



View attachment 293876

One of mine doesnt meet the guidelines but they still pass it because its viewed as ok many times previous. I know a farmer that has a gun clamp passed time and time again for his shotgun , made by the local blacksmith post Hungerford . So legally they do have wiggle room . SERCURITY OF YOUR FIREARMS SHOULD ALWAYS BE UNDER REVIEW THOUGH - via yourself as a responsible gun owner .
 
Back on track. D&C police admit to licensing failures, and some share of liability.
They were poorly trained and under-resourced . . . all the fault of the Home Office then.:oops:
More links . . .
 
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