Junior doctors strike

[Franchi Matt]

Yet more purposely created tension in our NHS makes me wonder how and what the buy out will be.... although Branson already has some NHS contracts/care provider his last failed venture (although hasn't yet asked for public funds again) should see him out of the running so WHO will save us? Tbh I think people have gotten use to the now chaotic poor performing health care we have, strikes, cancelled appointments, shocking staffing levels in all hospitals. Now we are use to it seems a shame to change it.... why even those robbing wealthy bstrd dentists are unable to survive of private patients alone and have started taking NHS patients again. And lets be honest - previous governments sold off just about everything in the past, only healthcare to go.... Putin'care anyone?

 

[big ears]

Doctors Nurses Care workers Supermarket workers delivery drivers and everyone else who works to keep the country going all do a fantastic job but they all do it for one reason and one reason only and that is for money.

Sorry you feel that way. Whilst the job security and salary is welcome it was never the driving force behind why I did medicine or ended up in the speciality I did.
You may scoff and ridicule peoples motives but I would say for the vast majority of NHS workers it is because they want to do the job and yes, are motivated to care and help people not the wage.
This then leaves them very vulnerable to exploitation by any political party. Suddenly now they have started to say enough is enough. For the first time ever the nurses went in strike and now the Junior doctors, the consultants of the future are saying stop this exploitation and pay us a decent wage.

 

[Franchi Matt]

The chronic shortage of workers across the whole sector leads to rota gaps that the nurses and doctors fill without extra pay.
Burn out is a real factor.

Funny as whilst there is a general shortage of all staffing levels on wards, theatres AND clinics in my wifes hospital (figures used to verify staffing levels) the amount of staff working on bank shift at enhanced rates of thier normal pay is huge so shortfalls are mostly plugged, funniest thing is - and this will make you laugh.... bank work is really NHs work, no employment agencies or third parties involved... so whilst the NHS refuses to raise wages - you can work for the NHS and they are happy to raise your wage the additional annual costs incurred due to staff shortages would scare you stiff and go a long way in raising every staff members wage.

 

[big ears]

If only anyone could agree on what that would look like.

Other countries do manage to do it.

 

[NoIDeer]

I've got family working in the NHS both consultants. Their philosophy whilst training was that they would accept debt as a part of the process knowing that they would earn good money later on. All doctors are in a continual training process, it is up to them how far they go.

This striking is political and the NHS staff are being used. They do need a better deal but continually increasing wages is not an answer to the bigger problem of uncontrolled inflation.

 

[big ears]

Funny as whilst there is a general shortage of all staffing levels on wards, theatres AND clinics in my wifes hospital (figures used to verify staffing levels) the amount of staff working on bank shift at enhanced rates of thier normal pay is huge so shortfalls are mostly plugged, funniest thing is - and this will make you laugh.... bank work is really NHs work, no employment agencies or third parties involved... so whilst the NHS refuses to raise wages - you can work for the NHS and they are happy to raise your wage the additional annual costs incurred due to staff shortages would scare you stiff and go a long way in raising every staff members wage.

Exactly this thank you. The issue is that it’s better for the organisation to pull in temporary staff at a premium than employ permanent staff in a decent wage.
Sadly it’s all down to budgets and how the DoH funding works. In the end as you say the cost is more.

 

[Dalua]

Other countries do manage to do it.

Which countries, and what there is the pay of the nurse in charge of a ward (for example), and that of a part-registered medical trainee such as your FY2?

 

[big ears]

increasing wages is not an answer to the bigger problem of uncontrolled inflation.

Wages rises causing inflation has been discredited and is not an issue. Should not be used as a reason not to pay decent wages

 

[Bowland blades]

There must be a reason why your daughter has chosen this path and please don't say its for the love of looking after or caring for people or medicine, as I said earlier in the post I was in a job early in life which was a job I always wanted to do but soon realised it wasn't for me and got out of it even though it would have lead to better things.
Doctors Nurses Care workers Supermarket workers delivery drivers and everyone else who works to keep the country going all do a fantastic job but they all do it for one reason and one reason only and that is for money.
Everyone has a choice what they want to do in life, The system may need looking at from what you're saying and if things are really as bad as your saying I would have chose a different career path

Why should i not say this? She does ! and she had lots of choices as we gave her the education and opportunities to take many different paths . Her decision was made when our youngest developed long term heath issues .
Money?? LOL ! You dont even know her or us before you spout this garbage of a wild guess . Strangely she actually likes people , my own gripes are how our system means its not the brightest and most motivated that get through to qualifying ! its the ones who have the support .
The future , when she gets fed up with being ultimately working for our lunatics in the house of commons ? Quite likely another Nation at the time she would be most valuable to Britain I suppose , those being the choices those with skills have

 

[big ears]

This is the nurses comparison chart. For junior doctors it is more difficult as they are not all on the same scale so comparisons difficult by individual grade. Specialists and GPs data mirrors nurses data do it’s not unreasonable to think it would be the same for JD

 

[Scotty99]

Fair point, but the essence of a public health system is that your employees become public servants by default.
Do junior doctors want to become middle grade civil servants or self employed?
The training regime is the same.
If you had the money and a touch of the Lurgy would you rock up at the local A+E and wait 8 hours or a private clinic and get immediate attention ?
It’s a 2 tier world, get used to it.

What the junior doctors are experiencing with their pay situation is one of the major downsides of working for a public sector monopoly. They get paid what the tax payer can afford. There are other benefits though such as a job for life and a very good public sector pension plan.

 

[Franchi Matt]

Exactly this thank you. The issue is that it’s better for the organisation to pull in temporary staff at a premium than employ permanent staff in a decent wage.
Sadly it’s all down to budgets and how the DoH funding works. In the end as you say the cost is more.

My wife works at number crunching in our local hospital.... she likens it to banging her head against a revolving brick wall, its not just financial trouble because even WITH all the money they ever needed they dont have the managers and teams they did 10 years ago to put it to good use. Too many chiefs not enough Indians.

 

[Dunwaters]

What the junior doctors are experiencing with their pay situation is one of the major downsides of working for a public sector monopoly. They get paid what the tax payer can afford. There are other benefits though such as a job for life and a very good public sector pension plan.

Absolutely correct, their only employer is the public service, so they get both poorly paid and badly treated.
You need a vibrant private health care sector to force public wage rates up.
Very few people realise just how expensive health care is.

 

[Scotty99]

Absolutely correct, their only employer is the public service, so they get both poorly paid and badly treated.
You need a vibrant private health care sector to force public wage rates up.
Very few people realise just how expensive health care is.

I do realise how expensive (good) healthcare is. My son, daughter in law and grandson live in the USA. Great healthcare but it comes with a healthy (excuse the pun) price tag. They have good insurance but their deductible (insurance excess in our speak) for the pre and post natal maternity services for the birth of my grandson was $1,000, but they had great service, my daughter in law‘s room in the maternity suite was like a hotel room, with comparable service. We get healthcare on the cheap and boy does it show.

 

[Dazb1967]

Sorry you feel that way. Whilst the job security and salary is welcome it was never the driving force behind why I did medicine or ended up in the speciality I did.
You may scoff and ridicule peoples motives but I would say for the vast majority of NHS workers it is because they want to do the job and yes, are motivated to care and help people not the wage.
This then leaves them very vulnerable to exploitation by any political party. Suddenly now they have started to say enough is enough. For the first time ever the nurses went in strike and now the Junior doctors, the consultants of the future are saying stop this exploitation and pay us a decent wage.

My wife works in care and for a lot of years on minimum wage, She started as a carer and worked her way up through the ranks to management so now makes a decent a living which took her 20+ years to get in this position, I know how it works looking after and caring for people its not just NHS workers and I would never ridicule anyone as it's not me.
All I'm saying is people have a choice and if they don't like it then move on I have told my wife this many times before but she just gets on with it, If they love caring for people and fed up with the NHS then move onto the private care, Wages are just above minimum wage, very low pension working days nights and bank holidays.

 

[Fair Hill]

A lot of lads on here seem to be well educated with good life experience but completely blinkered to the fact the Tories have screwed ye for all ye are worth.

A simple 5 minute Google search will show you why the NHS is in the sorry state it is and who is responsible.

 

[Dunwaters]

I do realise how expensive (good) healthcare is. My son, daughter in law and grandson live in the USA. Great healthcare but it comes with a healthy (excuse the pun) price tag. They have good insurance but their deductible (insurance excess in our speak) for the pre and post natal maternity services for the birth of my grandson was $1,000, but they had great service, my daughter in law‘s room in the maternity suite was like a hotel room, with comparable service. We get healthcare on the cheap and boy does it show.

You get what you pay for, your son is only paying for his wife and child’s care, on this side of the Atlantic the taxpayer pays for it all regardless of contribution, its not cheap, its not funded or managed appropriately.

 

[willie_gunn]

A lot of lads on here seem to be well educated with good life experience but completely blinkered to the fact the Tories have screwed ye for all ye are worth.

A simple 5 minute Google search will show you why the NHS is in the sorry state it is and who is responsible.

47.5% of the Irish population have private health insurance, compared to just 13% in the UK.

Maybe it’s the healthcare model in the UK that’s wrong?

 

[Fair Hill]

47.5% of the Irish population have private health insurance, compared to just 13% in the UK.

Maybe it’s the healthcare model in the UK that’s wrong?

The model was working when Labour were in government willie, if you want to remain blinkered to that fact that's fine by me.

I can't fathom why anyone with access to the internet doesn't understand the root cause of why the NHS is broken, all the facts and figures are out there as a matter of record.

 

[Ratel]

Junior doctors and nurses discussion apart, I have been saved several times by our NHS and am very grateful.. The new GP system is something that boils my p... however.
However the one thing that needs looking at (and definitely take no notice of govt figures).is the amount of people that have come into the country whilst hospital building has gone to the wall. There are several million immigrants who have entered through various means over the years and all are using the NHS facilities that existed and have not been increased. Yes some are doctors and I question why are they here if there are better opportunities elsewhere.
To sum up my thoughts, if we wanted all these folk to come to this overcrowded island why didn't we provide the facilities that would enable discontented junior doctors and nurses to have better working lives.
As others have said we have about the worst govt for too long, cut the numbers of MP's and make sure they have done proper work before being allowed into parliament. Stop immigration which is unauthorised, use the Australia/NZ systems, stop paying the frogs and take away their fishing rights until they stop the rubber boat system. It all begs the question why and what did our fathers and former relatives fight wars for? certainly not to overcrowd this island