.243 versus .223

[Bowland blades]

I have had a 243 since the mid 1990’s and a 223 for about 4 years. 223 is a lot quieter.

Terminal effect on Roe deer is pretty much the same. And would suggest that choice of bullet has far more effect on end carcass damage. I cannot see any terminal difference on Roe between a 51gn 223, and a 75gn 243 Peregrine VLR4 bullet. Perhaps if I took out a micrometer and very accurate scales I could tell the difference. Ditto on crows. I have yet to shoot a fox or a muntjac with these bullets, but suspect similar result.

I must admit to really liking the 223. Its easy to shoot, cheap to run and deadly. If it wasn’t for the legalities, I wouldn’t hesitate to use it on bigger deer at closer ranges (100 or so metres).

The 243 however is a big step up in power, noise, recoil etc. It is at the bottom end of 308 series of cartridges and with 75gn to 100gn bullets will and has pretty much been used all over the world.

South of the border you can use the the optimum 80 to 90gn bullets whether lead or copper on any deer and it just plain works. In Scotland we are slightly hampered by the 100gn min, which for lead free means Peregrine VRG3 bullet, which is not really an issue unless you are into long range sniping on big deer, and 243 is not the job.

If you are just shooting vermin and small deer (muntjac and CWD south of border, Roe in the north) then go with 223.

If you want one rifle for everything 243 or to be honest these days, the 6.5cm or 308 may be a better option.

243 is in many ways an ideal for long range shooting of deer with copper because of its good BC from length and the law is being fixed about the 100 grain min being now in process of being dropped to 80 grain in Scotland , all is good .
the amount of large deer shot with 95 grain .243 in lead in Scotland in years past likely exceeds that of England and Wales anyhow . The only way to check is for the bullet to be pulled and weighed with good calibrated scales and everyone knew that wasn't going to happen and i bet it never did happen
None of this stuff should be legislation imo . 1. because it makes no matter to anyone or the deer 2. because investigation into the bullet weight wasn't practical or in the public interest
Dont know why we have bullet weights at all TBF as we dont have a shooting accuraccy test or even require a proper test on bullet placement .
apparently some wacko didn't think English or Welsh Roe should be shot with .222 up, who the heck appointed themselves an expert on that eh?

 

[jthyttin]

90gr 243 Win does have about 70m/s headstart when compared to 120gr 6.5 Creedmoor or 150gr 308 Win, but those larger bullets have 20-25% better BC so I wouldn't classify 243 as "ideal for long range". Especially when it's a toss whether those mono bullets on the slippery side would even properly stabilize in standard 243 Win twist.

 

[User00035]

Apparently some wacko didn't think English or Welsh Roe should be shot with .222 up, who the heck appointed themselves an expert on that eh?

I always thought, perhaps wrongly, that the nonsensical disparity in permitted calibres between Scotland and England and Wales was down to the flawed assumption that highland reds being smaller than their pampered lowland counterparts in England then lowland deer species in Scotland must be smaller also and thus could be taken with smaller cartridges. A flawed assumption obviously, because a roe in Lanarkshire or Galloway is absolutely no different from a roe in Cumbria or Northumberland.

Whether that's apocryphal or not I don't know but that is what I thought was the logic behind it.

 

[User00057]

I have both and use the same Mod on both. 223 is obviously a bit quieter but i don't really notice the difference. I tend to use the 243 for my foxing these day. I just really like the Cal and Rifle. I just have a real confidence with it.

 

[Bowland blades]

I have both and use the same Mod on both. 223 is obviously a bit quieter but i don't really notice the difference. I tend to use the 243 for my foxing these day. I just really like the Cal and Rifle. I just have a real confidence with it.

Must be your ears i guess? Twice the powder a bigger hole in the barrel certainly makes a difference in my pair and that is without a tighter baffle clearance for the 223 and the same moderator

 

[Bowland blades]

I always thought, perhaps wrongly, that the nonsensical disparity in permitted calibres between Scotland and England and Wales was down to the flawed assumption that highland reds being smaller than their pampered lowland counterparts in England then lowland deer species in Scotland must be smaller also and thus could be taken with smaller cartridges. A flawed assumption obviously, because a roe in Lanarkshire or Galloway is absolutely no different from a roe in Cumbria or Northumberland.

Whether that's apocryphal or not I don't know but that is what I thought was the logic behind it.

The logic or rather lack of it , likely came from an adviser who actually had a large Knowledge and experience gap

 

[Skinny78]

243 is in many ways an ideal for long range shooting of deer with copper because of its good BC from length and the law is being fixed about the 100 grain min being now in process of being dropped to 80 grain in Scotland , all is good .
the amount of large deer shot with 95 grain .243 in lead in Scotland in years past likely exceeds that of England and Wales anyhow . The only way to check is for the bullet to be pulled and weighed with good calibrated scales and everyone knew that wasn't going to happen and i bet it never did happen
None of this stuff should be legislation imo . 1. because it makes no matter to anyone or the deer 2. because investigation into the bullet weight wasn't practical or in the public interest
Dont know why we have bullet weights at all TBF as we dont have a shooting accuraccy test or even require a proper test on bullet placement .
apparently some wacko didn't think English or Welsh Roe should be shot with .222 up, who the heck appointed themselves an expert on that eh?

There are so many regs you guys have to operate under that I struggle to understand. Isn't a full size Roe about 30ish kg? A wild goat here is twice the size of that and the bulk of govt contracted cullers use 223 and some 222 for them to make thier living. My Lab is hevier than 30kg lol

 

[PhilSN12]

There are so many regs you guys have to operate under that I struggle to understand. Isn't a full size Roe about 30ish kg? A wild goat here is twice the size of that and the bulk of govt contracted cullers use 223 and some 222 for them to make thier living. My Lab is hevier than 30kg lol

When has anything a politician has said/implemented been the truth or made any sense?

 

[muddy42]

I'm not afraid to admit it...I'm more accurate with smaller quieter calibres. I developed a flinch from using large unmoderated rifles in my mispent youth. i can control the flinch, but it takes effort. For a woodland (mainly roe) stalker, 243 really has all the answers.

 

[DVS1]

Seeing as so much effort is being out into what wording can be used to appease some of the more sensitive and fashionable topics around this day and age it's about time more effort & common sense was used to set current policies right. Now I appreciate of all the senses 'common' IS the least common.

A Roe deer is a Roe deer...whether North or south of a border, its the same bloody animal, built the same, same organs etc etc so as a standard across the board 1x calibre should be a base level. Evidently in this case, with historical usage of, 223 has proven to be effective in Scotland so why not implement such a level across the entire country.

Just like this example of Roe and minimum calibre the same should be done with firearms legislation. Does it matter whether a firearms certificate holder resides in Argyll or Anglesey the same process should be implemented not differing from force to force...is there a need to be different dependant on geographical location??

How amazing would it be if all shooting bodies came together to lobby the powers that be to set things right and one process across the board and applied to all geographical locations.

By no means an I a well read and knowledgeable of the reasons why the current differences are in place but it should move with the times like everything else.

Rant over

 

[ChesterP]

I've often wondered who, in government, comes up with these things other than spouting minimum energy statistics to be "humane". It's not considered "humane" to use a 223 on Roe in England and Wales yet the same government goes along with using 5.56 as "humane" for our standard issue service rifle taking out soldiers probably averaging 75Kg. Go figure.

 

[Overlay]

.243 is a brilliant fox rifle as well as deer without a doubt
if you can run with 2 rifles I would go for a 222 which is also good for muntjac as well as foxes and a little more quiet and very very accurate

 

[Skinny78]

.243 is a brilliant fox rifle as well as deer without a doubt
if you can run with 2 rifles I would go for a 222 which is also good for muntjac as well as foxes and a little more quiet and very very accurate

It's a shame you aren't allowed to use that 222 for everything.

 

[sako85708]

It's a shame you aren't allowed to use that 222 for everything.

I think the same with the 22-250

 

[Overlay]

It's a shame you aren't allowed to use that 222 for everything.

Yep. Pretty good all round caliber, I use mine for humane dispatch, Canada geese culls, muntjac, foxes and longer rabbits
little noise and accurate does the job admirably, If I’m honest I just like shooting it is such a nice rifle - day scope is a little heavier lead, on the thermal it’s 35g NT they both work perfectly

 

[Miki]

I think the same with the 22-250

You could, but it blows big holes in things, which if you want that is great, but if you don't ......

 

[TringSaint]

The only other consideration I would make (owning a 243) is that if you do range days then you will find far more and options for 223 range fodder than you will 243. Only stuff I have found for the 243 was PPU and that is hard to get and not very cheap, else you are using cheap ppu soft point stuff which isn’t really designed for 600m target shooting!

 

[Skinny78]

I think the same with the 22-250

Any of the 22s do everything, most versatile cals

 

[sako85708]

You could, but it blows big holes in things, which if you want that is great, but if you don't ......

Surely not with the correct bullet ?

 

[Mungo]

It's a shame you aren't allowed to use that 222 for everything.

I just bought myself another .222.

Very excited. Wish I’d never sold my old one.