Marksmanship Standards

So I was at a range today that shall remain nameless as it's not about the range but the shooters. It is primarily used by stalkers and vermin shooters. I have a pretty miserable view of stalkers shooting abilities generally but after today I have to question the availability of a FAC without a firearms competency test.

The target area is surrounded by a 5'+ square of timber which was peppered with bullet holes. Some very large bullet holes. Not ones that are being shot at bunnies. Fortunately for them, the shooters are nameless but such was the number of negligent discharges (3' 4' and maybe even more, cannot be considered anything else) that these people represent a danger to the rest of us, either physically or that they do something like that out stalking and somebody catches a bullet with the inevitable firearms law review.

Clearly these people don't know (or perhaps care) about bore sighting a rifle and don't know what to do if a shot does not appear on the target.

I hear all the stuff about maintaining our freedoms so no compulsory training, tests etc however after that today I am afraid I have changed my mind. Freedoms only survive if people are responsible enough to make sure they are competent and operate safely. Clearly not everybody is, or cares, and that is the environment where more legislation will appear eventually.

I now am coming to the view that the DSC1 shooting test is inadequate. It should include mounting and zeroing a scope with bore sighting. That is a basic skill. I am also coming the view that if DSC2 is supposed to demonstrate competence then it should include shooting test to a much higher level ie out to 300 yards prone and equivalent off sticks etc. At the moment you can whack a deer at 50 yards and are deemed be fully competent. Eh naw.

Most of you will disagree with me, but you did not see what I did. If someone was shooting like that on a range with me I would be off home quick.
 
Does not demonstrate a full range of skills, so not fully competent across a wide range of situations was my point. Don't bother thinking about it, just leapt straight to taking offence 😛
Maybe you need to consider that your post was poorly written and did not describe the situation clearly or get the point across….🙄

And I’m not offended, I just think belittling others thinking you are something special is not an good trait.
 
You don't want to hear it do you? 5' over the top?

Did it occur to you that I may have a point ?
You have mentioned 3 inches above the target, on one of my rifles I would have to dial in 3 inches for a 200 yard shot so to check that it would be 3 inches high at 100.
It does occur to me that you have a point but did you ask the shooter why their rounds were high or did you just assume ?
 
And I’m not offended, I just think belittling others thinking you are something special is not an good trait.
I do not think I am special. What, I am think I am special because I can hit a target at 100 yards that is smaller than 6' across with my first shot? Who would describe that as 'special'??

I don't think that being able to guarantee a first round hit on say a bit of A3 paper by bore sighting in, or by checking your zero if the first round goes awry is expecting anything other than basic competence in any shooter. If that counts are arrogance then god help us
 
Ranges can be terrible places sometimes especially gun clubs. Lots of cliques, lots of s*it spouted (you know its always that one tit in the group with the loud voice and its all you can hear) and plenty of retardation. A good few shouldn't be allowed to breed and vote let alone own firearms
 
Perhaps said person had a broken/faulty scope, this can lead to some real fliers. Had a swaro once go faulty, and went from 1/2”’grouping to throwing bullets 2 feet widen at best. Sent off for servicing and was found the reticle had come lose inside, meaning, with recoil, the next shot really could have gone anywhere.

In such circumstances, this could happen to even the best shooters in the industry

I genuinely doubt the ND proposal,
It would indicate the shooter was pointing the crosshairs all over the place whilst their finger was touching the trigger
 
Surely the range is the perfect location for these people to be improving their crap shooting?

Laughing at people who are shooting poorly on the range surely constitutes the same as mocking a fat bloke who has bothered their arse to go to the gym to do something about it?

If more of these ‘experts’ actually passed on their knowledge instead of standing back and judging those less capable the world may be a better place.
 
In the interests of impartiality, is it possible that multiple targets had been pasted on one target board or had someone been practicing shooting off sticks or free hand?

I have said before that as a community we should all be striving to improve our standards of marksmanship. In truth I suspect there are more that do not practice than those that do. I regularly hear how people can't shoot at paper but can do much better on deer (presumably because their marksmanship fundamentals are not solid and paper shows this up clearly and because deer have a much larger target area !) I would wholeheartedly support voluntary annual skills testing.
 
You cannot simply conclude that a shot 3 feet from the target must be an ND. Stuff happens, the rifle or scope gets knocked or broken or really really bad technique.

But an ND to me is more than just rubbish accuracy, its something that is fundamentally unsafe - a shot released when crawling, before the rifle is in your shoulder, when simply walking along etc.
 
Being able to keyhole on a target @ 100/200 yds does not automatically mean the same level of accuracy on a beastie on the hill, I’m always wary of clients who show great paper target displays.😜
A client proving to be a poor shot on a paper target doesn't fill me with confidence when it comes to taking someone to the hill for a beast
 
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Well done Nullmac! Bravo you for sticking your head above the parapet, not that they would hit it! There are quite a few over the years I have witnessed shooting, and they have failed miserably only to become keyboard experts..
I don't agree with you on your definition of an ND I just think it was poor shooting.
Quite a few years ago two of us were shooting at Diggle, we were having a hoot of time shooting the 100yd gongs with an L1A1 and a H&K C93, a Police officer(Firearms) wandered over and asked if he could have a go, we said of course, his level of marksmanship was similar to what you described..So no I am not surprised..
 
Thank you for the suggestion. I think I am in possession of more facts than you. I have seen the evidence, you haven't.
I give you an example of where you are so wrong.you clearly say ."

Clearly these people don't know (or perhaps care) about bore sighting a rifle and don't know what to do if a shot does not appear on the target." How and what are you thinking?
If I put a new out of box scope on my 375 AI and bore site it and then test fire it at 100 yards, I can miss a huge target area. Once sighted in I'm less than moa Then if I try my bullet drops I can be way of target as well.
But my main point was about you contempt for stalkers, at least they join a stalking site because they like it, whereas you join to spout your nonsense.
 
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Unfortunately, it would seem to me that despite being rather knowledgeable, NullMac chooses in the main to only contribute negatively.
There's no shortage of people who chose controversy and contradiction as a mode of engagement on the internet. It's a shame NullMac can't just contribute,educate and share.
 
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