BDS ?

[8x57]

Perhaps it’s time that the BDS was not involved in any training or deer managment and as they are simply not delivering

Mmm that's a thought but I'm not sure that I would be in entire agreement with you there.

Yes some of the training and how they provide it certainly needs to be addressed/improved but it probably wouldn't be a good thing if they walked away from it entirely, thus leaving the field wide open to more dubious commercially orientated operators some of whom are not very competent.

As for the Deer Initiative that too was like the "curate's egg" - it depended on where you lived and who you dealt with, varying from excellent to merely so so.

 

[David Barker]

Does anyone know who the head of BDS Scotland is ? I certainly don,t and feel that the BDS is only a fraction of clubs at local level. I would love a local branch around Glasgow to call on and ask question like is there any welfare issues in killing male deer year round. Shooting them in the dark with real risk of dependents being left behind. Through shots hitting deer hidden behind other deer. ETC ETC. They were no where to be seen taking the crumbs off the government table.

 

[Ronin]

Having read through most of the posts on this subject, I thought it time to put what has gone on in order, just to stop any further speculation.
There are a few on here who are local BDS representatives, who in the past posted up forthcoming BDS events. This became common place and I approached them to ask for them to take out Trade membership, which is £10 per month.
Without going all round the houses about this, I eventually had a phone discussion with their then CEO. Following on from this they decided to take out a years Trade membership, which allowed them to post up all their forth coming events. This has to my knowledge now expired, and it appears they have decided to not renew?

I questioned this with one or two on here who are supporters on a more senior level, who said they would ask those further up the chain and then respond. As I have not had any definitive answers, one can only assume that they do not see the potential of nearly 31,000 stalkers on the site, plus the site supporting them by putting the winners of the free Level 1 course through one of their courses

I am a member of BDS, and have supported them as much as I can. However from a personal point of view I am begining to think that maybe I am wasting my time. Many of you question BDS, but some forget that it is a CHARITY, NOT a business as such. That does not make it an easy ship to stear at times. But the local branch to me is really not that active, and even when I offered them a load of antlers etc to sell on their stands, they didnt exactly jump for joy, and it took several reminders before anyone collected the material. Very lack lustre to be honest.

I may seem like I am knocking BDS, I for one would not want to see it vanish, but it needs to be more pro active and more encouraging in my opinon.

Which is kind of my main point

The BDS is effectively run by individual branches and their VOLUNTEERS

And (forgive my grammar)

You get what you get dependant on where in the country you are

There is and are a huge pool of experience in these guys nd girls yet they are dictated to by individuals who are not in touch with reality and appear only to care for the dollar they can earn from inadequate and out dated training that devalues the entire ethos of the society

Hence asking should they step away from training all together as they are supporting a system that has taken a huge step backwards blindfolded

 

[Greenmist]

I joined the local branch a couple of years ago and don't think they were really interested in new comers.

They offered a mentoring scheme, which as new to stalking seemed to be a good idea so I enquired and was given an mentor but other than some emails I heard no more so gave up and didn't renew my subs.

I knew you were based in Northumberland just by reading this

 

[sikamalc]

Gentlemen and Ladies,
It appears that I have an apology to make, which I have no problem with at all.

BDS are Trade members of this site. However why the Trade banner has not come up under Nick Routes name is something I need to pass onto to Alex. Having just spoken with the CEO I can assure everyone that if anyone has a question to ask BDS will do their upmost to give you a response in a reasonable time.
As I have said before running a Charity is NOT an easy task. Having been responsible for one myself. Please bare that in mind.

Thank you

 

[Plitts]

Does anyone know who the head of BDS Scotland is ? I certainly don,t and feel that the BDS is only a fraction of clubs at local level. I would love a local branch around Glasgow to call on and ask question like is there any welfare issues in killing male deer year round. Shooting them in the dark with real risk of dependents being left behind. Through shots hitting deer hidden behind other deer. ETC ETC. They were no where to be seen taking the crumbs off the government table.

Scotland BDS is split into regions, "branches", e.g. Highlands, Central, South West etc ... so i don't think there is a person for BDS Scotland

 

[Buchan]

So as a “charity” what charitable service do they provide and to whom/what is it provided?
What form of charitable assistance might one be able to request?

Charitable status can be conferred on grounds of public good, which includes animal welfare. Ensuring deer are shot in a humane way and advice is given on how to control deer without shooting qualify for those grounds

 

[timbrayford]

Perhaps it’s time that the BDS was not involved in any training or deer managment and as they are simply not delivering

Remain a charity and provide funds for research from that and perhaps advice on welfare

Let’s have an organisation dedicated to deer management in the UK that provides sound scientific based advice to land owners and stalkers and training that is first class, applicable to best practice and second to none leading the field

Wait a minute ,,,,, didn’t the Deer Initiative deliver that

Aren't the BDS the custodian's of the former DI?

 

[BDS - Charity Account]

STALKING DIRECTORY RESPONSE.

BDS ? | The Stalking Directory

First, we would like to thank everyone for their thoughts, feedback and would especially like to thank our members and supporters for their constructive comments and explanations of the work, ethos, and values of our charity.

In response to NullMac’s original query – stalkers and deer managers are absolutely part of our community and play a significant role in it and the work we do. In terms of communication with this community there are a huge number of options available, and our current organisational size means it is impossible for us to use and monitor all of them regularly to our preferred standards. We strive to offer unbiased, evidence-based advice and information – and our current main methods of communication reflect this approach primarily using our website, social channels, and email communications.

We have a completely free email newsletter – Deerbytes – which you can sign up to and get regular updates on our work and what we do. As explained already – we won’t be able to respond to queries/comments on this forum quickly or frequently, and would instead recommend anyone looking for information and advice or wishing to voice an opinion/concern related to our mission or work to contact us via email at info@bds.org.uk. Requests can then be allocated to the most relevant expert – be it our Head of Training, our Technical Advisor, our Scientific Advisor, Veterinary Advisor etc.

Some of the posts on this thread seem to suggest a basic misunderstanding of what the BDS actually does, and if you have not seen it already a visit to our website at www.bds.org.uk might be helpful.

There are, and always will be many strong opinions among the stalking, deer management and related communities about various topics from deer welfare and training right through to the promotion and expansion of the venison sector. At the BDS we have a clear and transparent position on all topics relevant to our work. We are always open to discussion on shifting those positions considering new research or similar evidence.

Please note the BDS will not respond further on this thread as the option to contact us directly is freely available for anyone with a genuine question or query. We would encourage our members and supporters to do the same.

Together for deer.

The BDS team.
(info@bds.org.uk)

 

[willie_gunn]

Reading this thread it's little wonder there's no dedicated organisation for deer stalkers in the UK.....

 

[Overlay]

Reading this thread it's little wonder there's no dedicated organisation for deer stalkers in the UK.....

Yup damned if you do and damned if you don’t

 

[cjm1066]

Most charities have commercial affiliates; a "Stalkers" membership package delivering CPD would be a useful development and could easily provide some funds for research and facilitate the work – that was opportunity would have built on the insurance provision that they did offer.

Locally we have a good branch, but as other have said charities need volunteers.

Ultimately like all charities it relies on membership, once the training offer is explored I suspects many drift away them. I have stayed with them for 40 years, as a lot of what they do is good.

 

[Oldstalker]

Most charities have commercial affiliates; a "Stalkers" membership package delivering CPD would be a useful development and could easily provide some funds for research and facilitate the work – that was opportunity would have built on the insurance provision that they did offer.

Locally we have a good branch, but as other have said charities need volunteers.

Ultimately like all charities it relies on membership, once the training offer is explored I suspects many drift away them. I have stayed with them for 40 years, as a lot of what they do is good.

When I was national Treasurer [nearly 40 years ago] the BDS did give free insurance to all members. That ceased in about 1990 on the instructions of the Charity Commissioners who forbade us to give members a benefit. The BDS then sold an add-on to membership package for insurance. This became more complicated when it was divided into professional and hobby stalking (but with a tolerance for more than merely carcasses and travel monies). The insurance market then changed and it became very hard to find an underwriter willing to take the risk at all never mind at a sensible premium.

The point remains though that BDS is a Research, (Public) Education and Welfare CHARITY, not a members' club or stalking society and it may not legally give members benefits.

The CPD is the Training Department and charges for its courses. As noted above by others the quality of those courses varies, especially amongst the commercial providers and where BDS once had a monopoly first BASC, and then many others, were determined to move into (what was then) a lucrative market. Sharp competition led to a deterioration in quality and ultimately to a dilution of the strictness of the test (assessment as the educationalists insist on calling it). Whilst many years later when Chairman of the Training Committee I fell out with DMQ and the then training Manager over the duration, cost and quality of courses. I then had to resign for entirely unrelated reasons and therefore lost the argument.

 

[David Barker]

Reading this thread it's little wonder there's no dedicated organisation for deer stalkers in the UK.....

I do not agree Willie it show that there is a real need for an organisation that is solely for deer managers. Conflict from none shooters cannot be helpful when making decision at the BDS.. BASC on the other hand have to many fleeces and must find it hard to work on deer related matters.Deer in Scotland are a hot topic taking a large portion of the public budget.Yet there is no Scottish office represented there.

 

[Dickie]

Reading this thread it's little wonder there's no dedicated organisation for deer stalkers in the UK.....

There once was I think it was linked to the stalking magazine which was subscription only and vanished so I think that say enough I can’t remember what it was called but APMD rings a bell and for professionals.
Of course if you started an organisation that offered insurance, training, range days and meetings provided you were cheaper than SGA, BASC, NGO and any other offering the same you’d have a chance.
I suspect it wouldn’t take long before there would be cries of it’s a clique they grab peoples land etc etc.

 

[willie_gunn]

I do not agree Willie it show that there is a real need for an organisation that is solely for deer managers. Conflict from none shooters cannot be helpful when making decision at the BDS.. BASC on the other hand have to many fleeces and must find it hard to work on deer related matters.Deer in Scotland are a hot topic taking a large portion of the public budget.Yet there is not Scottish office represented there.

There once was I think it was linked to the stalking magazine which was subscription only and vanished so I think that say enough I can’t remember what it was called but APMD rings a bell and for professionals.
Of course if you started an organisation that offered insurance, training, range days and meetings provided you were cheaper than SGA, BASC, NGO and any other offering the same you’d have a chance.
I suspect it wouldn’t take long before there would be cries of it’s a clique they grab peoples land etc etc.

The Association of Professional Deer Managers (UKAPDM) disappeared back in 2009, when it was replaced by the NGO's Deer Branch. The NGO Deer Branch is supposedly "driven by its own informed, grass roots committee", though I've not heard much about that for some years either.

If there was a real need for a deer stalking organisation one would exist.

The reality is that deer stalkers have an inherent distrust of any organisation that claims to act for them. This is because of real or perceived worries over losing stalking ground (DI and BDS ad infinitum), disagreements over what the role of such an organisation should be (political campaigning, training, deer welfare, long range shooting, insurance, social meetings, challenging FEO's/Chief Constables, etc) and a belief that paying any form of subscription is sufficient in and of itself to deliver any and every item on a never-ending wish list!

Sadly I do not believe there is either the goodwill nor the finances to make a dedicated UK deer stalking organisation a realistic possiblity. Deer stalkers are apparently happier with somewhere they can visit anonymously, at zero or minimum cost, where they can moan about how no-one understands them, how everyone is looking to rip them off, and how it could all be done better if they were running things......not that they will ever take any steps to actually doing so.

 

[8x57]

Is the Association of Professional Deer Managers still in existence or has it fallen by the wayside following internal differences back in the mid eighties?

P.S. The NGO has the deer branch.

 

[willie_gunn]

Is the Association of Professional Deer Managers still in existence or has it fallen by the wayside following internal differences back in the mid eighties?

P.S. The NGO has the deer branch.

Gone, as of 2009. Here is how it was reported at the time:

New Deer Branch for National Gamekeepersâ Organisation - ShootingUK

The National Gamekeepers Organisation (NGO) has formed a new Deer Branch to help improve British deer management and give due weight to the widespread interest in deer within the NGO.

www.shootinguk.co.uk

 

[David Barker]

The Association of Professional Deer Managers (UKAPDM) disappeared back in 2009, when it was replaced by the NGO's Deer Branch. The NGO Deer Branch is supposedly "driven by its own informed, grass roots committee", though I've not heard much about that for some years either.

If there was a real need for a deer stalking organisation one would exist.

The reality is that deer stalkers have an inherent distrust of any organisation that claims to act for them. This is because of real or perceived worries over losing stalking ground (DI and BDS ad infinitum), disagreements over what the role of such an organisation should be (political campaigning, training, deer welfare, long range shooting, insurance, social meetings, challenging FEO's/Chief Constables, etc) and a belief that paying any form of subscription is sufficient in and of itself to deliver any and every item on a never-ending wish list!

Sadly I do not believe there is either the goodwill nor the finances to make a dedicated UK deer stalking organisation a realistic possiblity. Deer stalkers are apparently happier with somewhere they can visit anonymously, at zero or minimum cost, where they can moan about how no-one understands them, how everyone is looking to rip them off, and how it could all be done better if they were running things......not that they will ever take any steps to actually doing so.

Just because there is not one does not mean there is not a need. We have all government departments working for them selves. There has been a need for new party,s that work for the public interest indirection for many many years yet there is not one.

 

[Ronin]

Aren't the BDS the custodian's of the former DI?

DI were absorbed by Forestry England