Voluntary Annual Assessment - Poll

[Brave Echo Niner]

Good Evening All,


Following recent debate around deer stalking qualifications on various threads here I am curious to see peoples opinions on a voluntary annual assessment to demonstrate continued competency of practical marksmanship.

The assessment would offer several 'levels' to allow for 'grading' a candidates ability.

The assessment would be shot with three zeroing targets per candidate, one for each section of the assessment.

Gold
Five shots within 2" circumference circle around the bull, no time limit.
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 3" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 2" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Silver
Five shots within 3" circumference circle, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 4" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 3" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Bronze
Five shots within 4" circumference circle around the bull, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 5" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 4" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Ungraded
Candidate was unable to meet one or more of the criteria for Bronze, more practice/tuition is recommended.


The assessment can be shot up to twice if the candidate wished, with the higher grading of the two being the final result for that day.

The idea behind the design of the assessment being to demonstrate precision with the first target, then ability to cope under pressure with the latter two; building an appropriate position, making a good shot, then placing a follow up shot from that position within a reasonable time frame.

The bronze standard is done with the view it should roughly match a DSC One pass standard of marksmanship.


Would you take part in an annual assessment like this if it was for a very menial fee (£5-10 range fee?) which included sign off and proof of level obtained?

I am interested to hear peoples thoughts!


Ben

 

[Selous]

Yes I would participate and yes I think it’s a good idea….
Stand by for incoming…. Get your helmet ready

 

[VSS]

No.
Deer stalking (and associated small-scale venison processing) is one of the last bastions of relative freedom in this over-regulated country.
Let's keep it that way, please.

 

[Klenchblaize]

NO!

K

 

[RJD]

Why opt for extra rules? Don’t you have enough in your life?

 

[Rake Aboot]

What a load of tripe !
Why on earth anyone would think this is a good idea is beyond me .

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Why opt for extra rules? Don’t you have enough in your life?

I have more rules than most in my life due to my career, I've realised they prevent problems and accidents, rather than being problems themselves like they first appear.

For myself the ability to demonstrate I am maintaining my abilities and therefore are mitigating any possible issues to a landowner is invaluable, plus if I do drop in standard one year I am then aware further effort/practice/training is required to ensure I am up to the job!

These are things I wouldn't be able to do and wouldn't necessarily realise without an assessment and regularly taking it.

Ben

 

[deerstalker.308]

Bet there are plenty on here that could put hole on hole in a bit of paper but put them in front of a real deer at 50yrds would turn into a jibbering wreck.
What would this achieve exactly? Willy waving target chasers with too much time on their hands but not enough stalking.
Just a thought.

 

[Rake Aboot]

I have more rules than most in my life due to my career, I've realised they prevent problems and accidents, rather than being problems themselves like they first appear.

For myself the ability to demonstrate I am maintaining my abilities and therefore are mitigating any possible issues to a landowner is invaluable, plus if I do drop in standard one year I am then aware further effort/practice/training is required to ensure I am up to the job!

These are things I wouldn't be able to do and wouldn't necessarily realise without an assessment and regularly taking it.

Ben

Are you a professional deer stalker ?

If not then you have no need to make rods for your own back with tripe like this.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Bet there are plenty on here that could put hole on hole in a bit of paper but put them in front of a real deer at 50yrds would turn into a jibbering wreck.
What would this achieve exactly? Willy waving target chasers with too much time on their hands but not enough stalking.
Just a thought.

I agree - this is why placing people under pressure using a set time limit was proposed, in order to simulate that jibbering wreck, as current assessments giving as much time as required fail to do this.

I would hope this would achieve some stalkers reviewing their abilities and practicing more as they realise how skill fade kicks in rather quickly - in turn improving deer welfare by improving the competency of stalkers.

Ben

 

[AGR]

Might as well make DSC2 compulsory too.

 

[RJD]

I have more rules than most in my life due to my career, I've realised they prevent problems and accidents, rather than being problems themselves like they first appear.

For myself the ability to demonstrate I am maintaining my abilities and therefore are mitigating any possible issues to a landowner is invaluable, plus if I do drop in standard one year I am then aware further effort/practice/training is required to ensure I am up to the job!

These are things I wouldn't be able to do and wouldn't necessarily realise without an assessment and regularly taking it.

Ben

If someone is shooting live animals and is in need if third party validation whether the are ‘up to it’ then they really shouldn’t be. I’d like to hope any responsible firearms user is acutely aware of their limitations and quietly gets on with things. Electing for further testing is ridiculous, notwithstanding target or clay shooting has almost zero relevance to stalking or shooting.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Are you a professional deer stalker ?

If not then you have no need to make rods for your own back with tripe like this.

It's not my primary profession, but I do get paid to manage deer by certain organisations/landowners.

By this is the implication that recreational stalkers shouldn't need to be concerned with deer welfare given the well established link between that and good marksmanship?

 

[Rake Aboot]

Might as well make DSC2 compulsory too.

And the requirement for a proven trained tracking dog , plus first aid, comms , quad operator blah blah blah

 

[Rake Aboot]

It's not my primary profession, but I do get paid to manage deer by certain organisations/landowners.

By this is the implication that recreational stalkers shouldn't need to be concerned with deer welfare given the well established link between that and good marksmanship?

What well established link ?
Point me at that please ?

And the “ we’re professional so we’re better than the hobby stalkers” doesn’t cut any ice either. More corners get cut when money is on the line in my experience .

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

If someone is shooting live animals and is in need if third party validation whether the are ‘up to it’ then they really shouldn’t be. I’d like to hope any responsible firearms user is acutely aware of their limitations and quietly gets on with things. Electing for further testing is ridiculous, notwithstanding target or clay shooting has almost zero relevance to stalking or shooting.

While I do agree that is what should occur, perhaps attending a few range days might open your eyes. The number of time 'ah it'd be a dead deer' are uttered after a stalker approaches a shotgun esque target is astounding.

Many do not self limit and would not pass a DSC One test if made to do one again.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Yeh I don’t believe that I’m afraid.

 

[Sampo]

Another requirement that would become mandatory and would most definitely be used to not renew the fac and increase the cost for the process. It sounds more like a shooting competition that a deer stalking one.

How about aspects on carcass inspection and handling, butchery, disease identification, storage etc. What about having to do it when you are hungry, wet and cold when there is minimal light or trying to get close to a point with minimal disruption. Paper punching is not stalking and with a few hours on the range, a decent rifle + scope, most people would be able to make holes on paper. It doesn't make them a deer stalker.

 

[deerstalker.308]

While I do agree that is what should occur, perhaps attending a few range days might open your eyes. The number of time 'ah it'd be a dead deer' are uttered after a stalker approaches a shotgun esque target is astounding.

Many do not self limit and would not pass a DSC One test if made to do one again.

And many who could would wobble at a nice roe buck or red stag….. no amount of paper punching prepares you for that. While you’re adding things to the necessary qualifications list, how about filed craft (I bet many would fail this), safe use of knives, suspended gralloch protocol, shooting a target doesn’t prepare you to effectively manage deer or any other living quarry, getting out stalking/rabbit shooting whatever it is, does though.
Mistakes are what we learn by, I’m not too proud to acknowledge that over my nearly 20 years of stalking there have been things I’ve done wrong and learned from, the least of that learning has been target shooting.

 

[Klenchblaize]

CPD in wildlife conservation & management is commendable but what the Op is suggesting is at best tenuous in this regard and certainly not helpful to those who simply wish to shoot deer. IMHO.

However, had he said the ability to demonstrate a continued understanding of firearms safety upon renewal of a FAC I could warm to such. But no more.

K