Woodpigeon: pest or a quarry species?

Pest if on game licence there wud be close season wile breeding 🤷‍♂️ open whole can of worms 🪱 Dam difficult bird to shoot
Sure av herd someone call them the gray grouse
 
You’re already skating on very thin ice.
Under the EU birds directive ( of which you are still signatories ) you are obliged to provide protection for all birds during the breeding season, for woodies that’s practically all year round.
As a pest species they can be controlled, but it’s questionable if the UK’s rather liberal interpretation of what’s permissible, effectively any pigeon anywhere anytime whether or not damage is actually being done, would withstand a challenge.
If they are a designated quarry species, they would have the protection of a closed season.
Shooting during the closed season would require a special license and could be limited to particular areas and methods.
If you want to see how messy dealing with pest bird species can become, have a look at the Irish NPWS regulations.
 
Should we try to get woodpigeon on to the quarry list, while retaining the species on the general licences for bird pest control?

Not enough are shot in which ever format you use for starters, find better outlets for them is the key, A local ferret rescue centre is taking those which went to the game dealer as they have stopped taking them.

"Should" is not in the frame, "where" is the ferret rescue centre as there is no red tape just hungry ferrets.
 
If something ain't broke.....

Sure BASC has plenty of issues to focus on (lead anyone?) already without needing to make up new ones.
I very much do that BASC are running around looking to create difficulties for themselves or their members. This is very much a live issue and the UK is exposed if a direct complaint is made to the EU.
If that happens, you will be given a binding order which you will have to implement within a specific time frame or face sanctions.
 
I think currently many people who are not aligned to shooting maybe understand the need for pest control - once the bird comes on as quarry species i wonder if many would think its just something else for people to shoot
 
Given the shenanigans Wild Justice have caused to the general license this is the sort of fightback needed. As Conor notes it's an idea they are developing, let's watch with interest and contribute.
 
If something ain't broke.....

Sure BASC has plenty of issues to focus on (lead anyone?) already without needing to make up new ones.
The current situation with general licences is a disaster especially with NRW in Wales.
Bring back the original list which allowed authorised persons to control certain birds.
 
There is no particular need for woodpigeon to have a close season. Is there any reason why it can't be on the quarry list all year round and get rid of the need for a general licence altogether?

The general licence nonsense is a consequence of EU law and, in the case of pigeon, a prime example of where law that may have been sensible on the continent is completely unnecessary for the UK, given the abundance of winter feed for them, and mild weather.
Birds and other wildlife should be protected at population level, not individual level.

The current situation is iniquitous. It's illegal to shoot a pigeon for the pot, yet people shooting them by the hundred for pest control frequently can't get them onto plates. Much better to have them unprotected and eaten more often. The protection of them is unnecessary.
 
There is no particular need for woodpigeon to have a close season. Is there any reason why it can't be on the quarry list all year round and get rid of the need for a general licence altogether?

The general licence nonsense is a consequence of EU law and, in the case of pigeon, a prime example of where law that may have been sensible on the continent is completely unnecessary for the UK, given the abundance of winter feed for them, and mild weather.
Birds and other wildlife should be protected at population level, not individual level.

The current situation is iniquitous. It's illegal to shoot a pigeon for the pot, yet people shooting them by the hundred for pest control frequently can't get them onto plates. Much better to have them unprotected and eaten more often. The protection of them is unnecessary.
As I understand it bird species listed on 'huntable' quarry lists require close seasons during breeding and/or spring migration periods under EU laws; and regardless of Brexit there are similar requirements under Bern Convention which UK is a signatory to - so having a bird species on the quarry list with no appropriate close season would not be lawful currently.

However, as per the Shooting Times article linked in the OP, Canada goose is an example of a species with open and close seasons and is also on general licences.

The ins and out of all this was in fact all outlined in detail in a Law Commission review of wildlife law for England and Wales before Brexit - but then we had Brexit.

As things stand there has not been a holistic review of wildlife law since 1981 for England and Wales. Reviews have since taken place in NI and Scotland.

How long the woodpigeon open/close season should be would be a discussion point in the event of a quarry species review.
 
The current situation is iniquitous. It's illegal to shoot a pigeon for the pot, yet people shooting them by the hundred for pest control frequently can't get them onto plates. Much better to have them unprotected and eaten more often. The protection of them is unnecessary.
This. My friend has a squirrel and pigeon problem in his garden. We live half a mile apart in the same village. The squirrels we live cage trap and I then shoot them within the hour of their capture with an air rifle through the back of the head. The pigeons. They get left alone for, as I tell him, it is unlawful for him or me in the circumstance of his garden, to shoot them as they are not doing or causing "serious damage" so are untouchable. It is daft. But it is also how the law has it.
 
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There should be a closed season while they are breeding especially at peak times
Letting young die in the nest of starvation and thirst is fu....g cruel
With the milder seasons also a lot of pigeons living in towns they are breeding close to all year round so that would mean a very short window to shoot them, then the conditions need to be right to make any impact on numbers.
What dates would you set for a closed season in your experience of shooting pigeons. ?
 
As I understand it bird species listed on 'huntable' quarry lists require close seasons during breeding and/or spring migration periods under EU laws;
I agree, although the argument in the case of woodpigeon is that this is an unnecessary level of protection considering that they are able to breed throughout the year in the UK, that their population in the UK is relatively very high, and the abundance of year round feed.
and regardless of Brexit there are similar requirements under Bern Convention which UK is a signatory to - so having a bird species on the quarry list with no appropriate close season would not be lawful currently.
I disagree.
My understanding, which is very limited, is that the Bern Convention protects the species listed in its Appendices, and the woodpigeon is specifically excluded from Appendix 3. Notwithstanding that, the text of the convention does not actually require a close season, it requires either a close season or other measures to protect population levels as appropriate. A better understanding of what the actual situation is would be beneficial, and perhaps some investigation in that direction would be worthwhile.
However, as per the Shooting Times article linked in the OP, Canada goose is an example of a species with open and close seasons and is also on general licences.
The problem with general licences is, as we've seen, that the law is subject not so much to the ecological requirements, but more to political activism and the political biases of those whose job it is to administer them. While they are appropriate for some species, I really think that protection of any species is unnecessary where it is clearly very abundant over sustained periods of time. UK and EU law is extremely inconsistent in this regard, which whole swathes of flora, fungi and fauna entirely unprotected despite vulnerability and individuals of abundant species given high levels of protection.
The ins and out of all this was in fact all outlined in detail in a Law Commission review of wildlife law for England and Wales before Brexit - but then we had Brexit.

As things stand there has not been a holistic review of wildlife law since 1981 for England and Wales. Reviews have since taken place in NI and Scotland.
A holistic review is well overdue, but I fear it would be unwelcome because of the pressures which would be brought to bear. Many of the organisations, generally described by the media as conservation organisations are highly politicised, biased, and frequently wrong. It is rather sad that the period since 1981 has seen much legal protection, often onerous bordering lunatic of some species, yet the overall result has been one of extreme failure and declines in wildlife overall.
How long the woodpigeon open/close season should be would be a discussion point in the event of a quarry species review.
I think the key issues would be:
1. What months do they breed in? Answer, they have been recorded breeding every month of the year in the UK.
2. Is the population vulnerable to being reduced to a threatened level by shooting? No
3. Are they a pest species? Yes
4. Are they migratory in the UK? Not significantly.

Elements to avoid are the ridiculous stipulations that they should only be shot at the time and place where they are causing damage. This is Corbynesque idiocy - completely bonkers for a species with the mobility of birds, and utterly deranged to have to effectively catch them red-handed.
 
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