Anyone using a 6.5mm x 68 RWS rifle?

[C h r i s]

Many years ago, in the early 1980s I went to the Nottingham arms fair, a most wonderous event that made Christmas seem utterly dull in comparison even for a 12 year old, will never forget the fantastic aroma of cigar smoke, stale beer, cosmoline and gun oil. Anyway I bought an inert 6.5mm x 68 RWS cartridge as I collected that sort of stuff and it eventually sat hidden away in a sweet tin for many years.

Fast forward 40 years and I dig out said tin, and marvel at this cartridge, which makes my 6.5 Creed and 6.5PRC look very tame indeed. Done a little research and discover that it was first marketed in late 1940.

Picture below: 6.5 Creed on left, 6.5 PRC middle, 6.5mm x 68 RWS right.



So this has now got me thinking... before its too late and I kick the bucket, I probably need to find a rifle chambered in this calibre.

Anyone on here shoot this calibre, is it now ultra rare? I see that RWS still sell ammunition but the bullets seems to be somewhat light at 8.2 grams (126 grains), or a "non lead" at 6 grams (92 grains). Velocities are tamer than I was expecting, with the factory offerings producing 3116 - 3641 ft/sec - but with so much case capacity (a whopping 82 grains of H20 according to Quickload) I'm sure its capable of a lot more.....

 

[Bavarianbrit]

My pal the German vet who has a gun dealers license as a side line has just bought one in this calibre and he now wants me to do his reloading, the cases are thick walled like with the 5.6x57, I am still looking for a die set.
The joke is he gave me a few months ago a bunch of 8x68s that he no longer needed as the rifle was gone, I de labbed them as it was fresh N160 powder with Norma Vulcan bullets then I sold the bullets on for him.

 

[C h r i s]

Apparently the bullet is .277 (7.04mm), not the usual .264 for 6.5mm.

 

[takbok]

Nice big cartridge - can't be far off the 26 Nosler. I've seen a Sauer 202 chambered in 6.5x68.

 

[Malxwal]

Not that many years ago I shot a Blaser in 6.5x68, so they are out there.

 

[jthyttin]

6.5x68 (also known as 6.5 Express vom Hofe among other names) is definitely 6.7mm projectile as other 6.5mm cartridges. Seems to be debatable whether it was introduced in 30's or 40's (would put my money on 30's because of WWII).

After getting the 6.5mm you can continue with other Super Express vom Hofe chamberings, like 5.6mm, 7mm and 9.5mm (.375). They even have their own designation in CIP TDCC footer...

 

[Malxwal]

I recall Callum at PRS kept the RWS factory ammo,albeit as it was a source of brass for a wildcat a customer (or two) ran.

 

[jthyttin]

6.5x65 RWS, on the other hand, is a different chambering not to be confused with x68. It's based on 308 size boltface.

 

[sako2506]

I have two rifles chambered in this 6.5x68 caliber, RWS only have two factory rounds available 127g and 93g, which used to be lead but now i believe is non Lead.

Sako 75 Action V in 6.5x68 (was originally a 7RM) with a new precision rifles Krieger Barrel by Callum in 6.5x68

Sauer 202 Magnum action with the factory barrel chambered in 6.5x68, and I managed to source a new spare barrel as a replacement.

A fantastic caliber, a little hard to find factory ammo to use but i have got home load options to use if needed.

 

[C h r i s]

Sako 75 Action V in 6.5x68 (was originally a 7RM) with a new precision rifles Krieger Barrel by Callum in 6.5x68

That's good to know that someone has a chamber reamer, many thanks.

Just found a drawing that confirms its .264 (6.7mm), no idea why an advert for RCBS dies quotes .277, guess its just an error.

 

[jthyttin]

If the drawing you referred to was not CIP, you might want to save / print it also:

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page30.pdf

 

[Bavarianbrit]

6.5x68 (also known as 6.5 Express vom Hofe among other names) is definitely 6.7mm projectile as other 6.5mm cartridges. Seems to be debatable whether it was introduced in 30's or 40's (would put my money on 30's because of WWII).

After getting the 6.5mm you can continue with other Super Express vom Hofe chamberings, like 5.6mm, 7mm and 9.5mm (.375). They even have their own designation in CIP TDCC footer...

FYI,
The 6.5x68mm and the 8x68mm S were developed in the 1930s by Schueler from the August Schueler Waffenfabrik in Suhl, Germany as magnum hunting cartridges that would fit into the standard sized Mauser 98 bolt action rifles. At the time the H&H magnums would not fit into the standard M98 actions. However, World War II spoiled the commercial introduction and spread of the 6.5x68mm. The cartridge offers similar performance to the 264 Winchester Magnum without the belt. It is still used widely in the Germanic countries for Roe Deer, Chamois and Red Deer and it is also a pure civilian cartridge so it can be used for example in France, which had banned former military cartridges for hunting.
The extremely thick brass results in 'only' 5.58 ml (86 grains) H2O of cartridge case capacity for the 6.5×68mm. the primer type is large rifle magnum.

 

[Sinistral]

FYI,
The 6.5x68mm and the 8x68mm S were developed in the 1930s by Schueler from the August Schueler Waffenfabrik in Suhl, Germany as magnum hunting cartridges that would fit into the standard sized Mauser 98 bolt action rifles. At the time the H&H magnums would not fit into the standard M98 actions. However, World War II spoiled the commercial introduction and spread of the 6.5x68mm. The cartridge offers similar performance to the 264 Winchester Magnum without the belt. It is still used widely in the Germanic countries for Roe Deer, Chamois and Red Deer and it is also a pure civilian cartridge so it can be used for example in France, which had banned former military cartridges for hunting.
The extremely thick brass results in 'only' 5.58 ml (86 grains) H2O of cartridge case capacity for the 6.5×68mm. the primer type is large rifle magnum.

Sorry, but this isn't right. All serious collectors, and academic sources agree that RWS alone developed and copyrighted the two 68mm cartridges, as they have done with the 8.5 x 68 Fanzoj and .375 Hölderlin based on this case (see CIP). They're unrelated to the Vom Hofe cartridges, and there are rimmed versions of each I've never seen. The series first appeared in the RWS catalogues post 1945. This is the text from my RWS 'Wiederladen Handbuch' (1983) with the best translation I can manage, but I'm sure you can do better.

Geschichte der 6.5x68
In den Jahren 1938 und 1939 bei RWS in Nurnberg entwickelt. kam die 6.5x68 im Fruhjahr 1940 auf den Markt. Manche Quellen benennen die Fa. August Schüler oder die Fa. Krieghoff als Entwickler, andere die Firmen Vom Hofe oder gar Mannlicher Diese Angaben sind falsch. Vielmehr war die 6.5x68 eine Parallelentwicklung der 8x68S und erschien gleichzeitig mit dieser.
Geschichte der 8x68S
Der Ursprung der 8x68S geht zuruck bis in die Mitte der Dreisiger Jahre. Bei RWS war man damals dabei, auf Grund der regen Nachfrage eine Hochleistungspatrone im 8mm Kaliber zu entwickein, welche den schon vorhanden Patronen wie 8x64S und 8x75S uberlegenen sein sollte. Der zuerst eingeschlagene Schritt, lediglich durch Verwendung eines neu geschaffenen , sehr progressiven Pulvers in Hulsen gelaufiger Dimension zu wesentlich groseren leistungen zu kommen, war nur teilweise erfolgreich. Der logische zweite Schritt war die Vergroberung des Verbrennungsvolumens bei gleichzeitig notwendig werdender Verstarkung der Hulsenwandung. Da die Patronenlange bdurch die Dimensionen des Normalen 84mm Mauser-systems Grenzen fand, musten zwangslauslauling die P-und-R- Durchmesser im Vergleich zu den gelaufigeren Patronen erhort werden, um einen genugend grosen Brennraum zu erhalten. Am Mausersystem waren einige geringfügige Änderungen wie etwa Verlängerung und seitliche Auflauframpe, Vergrößerung des Stoßbodens usw., durchzuführen Die 8x68S ist - wie die gleichzeitig entwickelte 6.5x68 - ein Musterbeispiel dafür, wie eine Patrone für ein bestimmtes System maßgeschneidert wird.

History of the 6.5x68
Developed in 1938 and 1939 at RWS in Nuremberg. The 6.5x68 came onto the market in the spring of 1940. Some sources name the company August Schuler or the company Krieghoff as developers, others the companies Vom Hofe or even Mannlicher. This information is incorrect. Rather, the 6.5x68 was a parallel development of the 8x68S and appeared at the same time.
History of the 8x68S
The origins of the 8x68S go back to the mid-1930s. At that time, due to the lively demand, RWS was in the process of developing a high-performance cartridge in 8mm calibre, which was supposed to be superior to the existing cartridges such as 8x64S and 8x75S. The first step taken, to achieve significantly greater performance simply by using a newly created, very progressive powder in cases of common dimensions, was only partially successful. The logical second step was to increase the combustion volume which at the same time made it necessary to strengthen the case wall. Since the cartridge length was limited by the dimensions of the normal 84mm Mauser system, the P and R diameters had to be increased compared to the more common cartridges in order to obtain a sufficiently large combustion chamber. Some minor changes had to be made to the Mauser system, such as extension and the side ramp, enlargement of the shock base, etc. The 8x68S is - like the 6.5x68 developed at the same time - a prime example of how a cartridge can be tailored to a specific system.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

There's Wiki for you. Thanks for the update.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Picked up a new die set still awash with oil. Now the fun starts.

 

[C h r i s]

Picked up a new die set still awash with oil. Now the fun starts.

Which dies did you get? Will be interesting to see how they cope with the thick walled brass.

 

[bobo]

6,5x68 RWS is not a rare caliber here in central EU. Dont really se many newer rifels in the caliber, but Sauer makes standard barrels for the caliber, but it needs a magnum bolt in the system to put that barrel on.
However it is only shelf ware in larger hunting shops. Smaller shops will often have to order them home, and there will be up to 1-3 days waiting for them.

8x68S is far more popular and is normal shelf ware in most hunting shops here.

 

[webley701]

Which dies did you get? Will be interesting to see how they cope with the thick walled brass.

Triebel make some very nice die’s for the cartridge. It’s notable that they only do them in 1-1/4” rather than the normal 7/8” size (for the reason you allude to).

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Triebel make some very nice die’s for the cartridge. It’s notable that they only do them in 1-1/4” rather than the normal 7/8” size (for the reason you allude to).

Mine are RCBS ones.

 

[Sinistral]

Mine are RCBS ones.

As are mine. The P1 dimension determines whether 'large-series' dies are necessary.
RWS 6.5 x 68 case walls are no tougher or thicker than those of Winchester's WSSM or WSM series.