The most significant research on shooting for a decade

[big ears]

Again mate come look at our place - you wont believe the raptors - and we only have a small acreage really
Little owl
Goshawk
Kestrel
Kite
Buzzard
Merlin
Hobby
Spar
Peregrine
Barn Owl
Tawny Owl
Osprey - for about 3/5 days
That massive Lammerguir had a day with us a few years ago

When i started the "project" of planting / woodland management / ponding i wanted more than anything barn owls - we now have 6 pairs !

That’s great and well done. However in Yorkshire on a managed grouse moor I have seen the exact opposite yet the unmanaged moor less than 20 miles away had a long list like yours.

It’s like the old joke about Luigi the fireman. No one remembers the good he did saving lives just the one sheep he shagged. We can, and should, claim the good but also need to accept the bad and call it out for what it is. Until we do we are tared by that brush. People on here are claiming I’m deaf to this, I’m not just that I see the good and the bad not just the good.

 

[JTO]

So in reply. Do you say that there is NO raptor persecution on any driven shoots? or are your ears deaf to where it happens?

I merely quoted the results of a Game Conservancy survey as highlighted in an article my Chapman Pincher about 40 years ago.

 

[big ears]

I merely quoted the results of a Game Conservancy survey as highlighted in an article my Chapman Pincher about 40 years ago.

You are a politician as well and choosing not to answer the question posed

 

[JTO]

You are a politician as well and choosing not to answer the question posed

I've never seen raptor persecution on any of the 6/7 shoots that I have been beating and shooting on, but a negative can't be 'prooved'.

 

[big ears]

I've never seen raptor persecution on any of the 6/7 shoots that I have been beating and shooting on, but a negative can't be 'prooved'.

think this is the thing. Small shoot’s good large shoots .

 

[big ears]

@Conor O'Gorman as promised I sent requests to my candidates. None of their details are in your website still but this short election has caught everyone on the hop even though we knew it would happen this year!

Responses so far:
1. Conservative- candidate doesn’t shoot but supports firearm ownership if it can be proven it’s needed.
2. Lib Dem- his mother has just died so his office answered saying they had no plans to change ownership laws.
3. Labour- no response as of today.
4. Reform- no response as of today
5.green- no response as of today.

Will update when more comes in.

 

[JTO]

think this is the thing. Small shoot’s good large shoots .

I wouldn't say shoots like Melbury Park, Stancombe, Lulworth MoD ranges, Piddletrenthide, Abbotsbury are 'small shoots'.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman as promised I sent requests to my candidates. None of their details are in your website still but this short election has caught everyone on the hop even though we knew it would happen this year!

Responses so far:
1. Conservative- candidate doesn’t shoot but supports firearm ownership if it can be proven it’s needed.
2. Lib Dem- his mother has just died so his office answered saying they had no plans to change ownership laws.
3. Labour- no response as of today.
4. Reform- no response as of today
5.green- no response as of today.

Will update when more comes in.

Thanks, could you forward any emails with those responses to politics@basc.org.uk and they will be picked up centrally.

 

[JTO]

My local conservative candidate has a 27,500 acre family estate and has been a guest on a shoot I was beating on. I doubt anything I ask will affect his position on shooting. Contacting the others would merely give them something to try to coax a few extra votes perhaps, something I don't want.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

So in reply. Do you say that there is NO raptor persecution on any driven shoots? or are your ears deaf to where it happens?

No, it does happen obviously. But only in the minority of cases, why does the odd bird being killed illegally undo the hundreds of thousands of birds of prey benefiting from game shooting? Ever heard of throwing out the baby with the bath Water?

 

[big ears]

No, it does happen obviously. But only in the minority of cases, why does the odd bird being killed illegally undo the hundreds of thousands of birds of prey benefiting from game shooting? Ever heard of throwing out the baby with the bath Water?

There is no evidence in your statement that hundreds of thousands of raptors benefit. It’s a rose tinted opinion not based on facts.
As I said it’s a Luigi the fireman situation

 

[andyk]

There is no evidence in your statement that hundreds of thousands of raptors benefit. It’s a rose tinted opinion not based on facts.
As I said it’s a Luigi the fireman situation

If using the Luigi analogy, is it not that overall the raptors have benefited from the food and habitat (the people Luigi saved) but the attention is on the few dead raptors (the sheep he sh****d)?

 

[big ears]

If using the Luigi analogy, is it not that overall the raptors have benefited from the food and habitat (the people Luigi saved) but the attention is on the few dead raptors (the sheep he sh****d)?

Exactly we agree at last.

We in the shooting community should have a zero tolerance to all raptor persecution.

Knowing it goes on and turning a blind eye is condoning the behaviour.

If we condone it we hand all shooting to the Antis on a plate.

 

[sikasako]

Specific refs to deer stalking in main report were deer management/stalking totalling 120,000 participants (22% of all participants), and deer making up 4% per cent of all live quarry taken, with roe making up the largest bag.

Value of shooting report - The Value of Shooting

The Value of Shooting report 2024 Download the Value of Shooting report

valueofshooting.co.uk

Interesting and well presented report.

Any idea what % of the BASC membership is involved in deer management/stalking, compared to the 22% quoted in this report?

 

[Chill 123]

Hi Big Ears
You make claims about big shoots burying birds and shooting raptors are you able to provide any evidence of this ? The shoots I have been on
all dispose of there surplus birds through a Game dealer .
Believe me if they ban driven shooting it wont be on the amount of birds in the bag at the end of the day , it will be ALL driven game shooting
that is banned . Once a year myself and some friends will buy a days driven shooting which equates to about 15 birds per day per gun I don't
think that is excessive .

Chill

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Interesting and well presented report.

Any idea what % of the BASC membership is involved in deer management/stalking, compared to the 22% quoted in this report?

BASC has circa 150,000 members, and based on 2020 member survey data, 42,000 (28%) are actively involved in deer management across the UK. Although this includes full-time professionals, the majority (88%) of our deer manager members operate on a voluntary basis.

 

[sikasako]

BASC has circa 150,000 members, and based on 2020 member survey data, 42,000 (28%) are actively involved in deer management across the UK. Although this includes full-time professionals, the majority (88%) of our deer manager members operate on a voluntary basis.

Any update from BASC regarding reintroducing an active deer stalking scheme in Scotland ?

(The BASC website mentions that it is planning to re-tender for the Arran scheme and that they ‘hope to announce new options in Scotland in due course’ )

2024 has been the first time in at least 25 years (certainly that I can recall) that BASC does not have an active scheme in Scotland to offer to its 42,000 UK deer management related members.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Any update from BASC regarding reintroducing an active deer stalking scheme in Scotland ?

(The BASC website mentions that it is planning to re-tender for the Arran scheme and that they ‘hope to announce new options in Scotland in due course’ )

2024 has been the first time in at least 25 years (certainly that I can recall) that BASC does not have an active scheme in Scotland to offer to its 42,000 UK deer management related members.

No update yet. When BASC publishes an update I will post it on the forum.

 

[David Barker]

No update yet. When BASC publishes an update I will post it on the forum.

I have read the requirements for the Arran scheme and there is only one winner BASC. What is needed is the success of the BASC Arran scheme rolled out over all the shooting organisation so that the BASC Scheme is not seen as a hand out for favours back.

 

[Dunwaters]

Exactly we agree at last.

We in the shooting community should have a zero tolerance to all raptor persecution.

Knowing it goes on and turning a blind eye is condoning the behaviour.

If we condone it we hand all shooting to the Antis on a plate.

You can’t have a zero policy towards raptor persecution and run about bemoaning the lack of licenses issued to control buzzards.