UK use of dangerous game cartidges

[njc110381]

Morning all. I've just had an email from my firearms department requesting that the UK use of my .416 is removed from my certificate "in line with the 2022 guidelines". From what I can see of it that's total rubbish. Anyone else having this problem recently?

It would be interesting to know if this is a nationwide thing or a Gloucestershire thing and I'd appreciate your feedback please. Thanks

 

[Selous]

I am aware of one person local to me that has just been allowed AOLQ on African calibres after showing good reason by going abroad. Section 12.37 of the home office guidance is the one you need and specifically mentions being able to use them in the UK for large deer once good reason has been demonstrated.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1116230/Firearms_guide_November_2022.pdf

 

[User00056]

Here you go

 

[Namman]

Morning all. I've just had an email from my firearms department requesting that the UK use of my .416 is removed from my certificate "in line with the 2022 guidelines". From what I can see of it that's total rubbish. Anyone else having this problem recently?

It would be interesting to know if this is a nationwide thing or a Gloucestershire thing and I'd appreciate your feedback please. Thanks

Here we go again, the triumph of ignorance over knowledge. Use the freedom of information act and ask how many in Gloucestershire have larger bore rifles for stalking in the uk..
It's what I had to do some years ago when my 375 was disallowed for stalking by an feo despite having stalked with it for more than 40 years and regular use abroad.

 

[Tim.243]

Morning all. I've just had an email from my firearms department requesting that the UK use of my .416 is removed from my certificate "in line with the 2022 guidelines". From what I can see of it that's total rubbish. Anyone else having this problem recently?

It would be interesting to know if this is a nationwide thing or a Gloucestershire thing and I'd appreciate your feedback please. Thanks

When is your next trip for dangerous game?

 

[Frank Homes]

Morning all. I've just had an email from my firearms department requesting that the UK use of my .416 is removed from my certificate "in line with the 2022 guidelines". From what I can see of it that's total rubbish. Anyone else having this problem recently?

It would be interesting to know if this is a nationwide thing or a Gloucestershire thing and I'd appreciate your feedback please. Thanks

You could point out to them that to do so is a partial revocation and that requires a formal letter giving you the right of appeal.

 

[finnbear270]

All of a sudden they choose "GUIDELINES" ???????????????

 

[Cyres]

Let's say Gloucester FAL seem to invent the rules as they go along.
Requirements for fixings on a cabinet were OTT.
D

 

[Selous]

A friend (who is on here) has just been granted permission for a .375 with a condition that it must not be fired in the UK!! It’s absolutely unbelievable the lack of common sense that is applied!!

 

[old 30-06]

I have a 30-06, not a 375, or a 416. However, the principle is just the same. Before a trip to Africa I get out and practice as much as I can, especially off sticks. I would not feel confident to shoot large game without this practice. How can you do this if you are not allowed to fire it here ? If you can show good reason to possess it, surely you should be able to fire it (safely, in the right place).

 

[finnbear270]

I have previously had 45/70, .300 Win Mag open and aolq with Cheshire, currently with North Wales & have had .300 Win Mag / .375 H&H, open & aolq, Now have 9.3 X 62 open & aolq, along with a 6.5 PRC which is a magnum cartridge open & aolq.

 

[Selous]

I have a 30-06, not a 375, or a 416. However, the principle is just the same. Before a trip to Africa I get out and practice as much as I can, especially off sticks. I would not feel confident to shoot large game without this practice. How can you do this if you are not allowed to fire it here ? If you can show good reason to possess it, surely you should be able to fire it (safely, in the right place).

Totally agree, it is the person that makes a firearm safe or unsafe! I sense a change in attitude has occurred from the powers that be. I would strongly advise EVERYONE takes out legal liability insurance BEFORE submitting any variation and be prepared to go to crown court to argue your case. After the first 10-20 cases are heard and hopefully upheld there will probably be a change in attitude from the various constabulary’s

 

[Stalker62]

A friend (who is on here) has just been granted permission for a .375 with a condition that it must not be fired in the UK!

If this is true (I do not doubt your integrity @Selous), then this is rather worrying.

Is your friend minded to challenge this?

I do wonder what your friend articulated when they made the request? Did they say they 'only' wanted if for (eg) Africa? Did they make it clear that they would need to zero/practice in the UK?

I am sure that most on here will be familiar with the 'normal' FAC wording in relation to 'Safari' rifles - see below for my .416.




However, and it support of your assertion that there seems to be a 'change in the wind'...


Until I submitted my FAC for a non-related variation (Mauser K98k - thanks for asking), my .375 which had been granted about fifteen years ago for deer, came back with this new 'condition'.


So they no longer consider the .375 appropriate for deer, unless it is beyond Hadrian's Wall and outwith their jurisdiction.

Could make a grown man weep...

Stupid rules imposed by folk who should know better, and which does nothing to add to public safety.

 

[njc110381]

Here we go again, the triumph of ignorance over knowledge. Use the freedom of information act and ask how many in Gloucestershire have larger bore rifles for stalking in the uk..
It's what I had to do some years ago when my 375 was disallowed for stalking by an feo despite having stalked with it for more than 40 years and regular use abroad.

That's a good plan. I'll do that. Thanks

When is your next trip for dangerous game?

Not booked at the moment. Currently chatting with a friend about visiting at some point next year. Covid messed up my previous trip so I've not been for a while now.

 

[25 Sharps]

I have a 30-06, not a 375, or a 416. However, the principle is just the same. Before a trip to Africa I get out and practice as much as I can, especially off sticks. I would not feel confident to shoot large game without this practice. How can you do this if you are not allowed to fire it here ? If you can show good reason to possess it, surely you should be able to fire it (safely, in the right place).

It isn’t though as under the guidelines deer is considered good reason for 30-06, it’s is not for .416 which is suspect is what they are referring to.

 

[25 Sharps]

That's a good plan. I'll do that. Thanks

Not booked at the moment. Currently chatting with a friend about visiting at some point next year. Covid messed up my previous trip so I've not been for a while now.

If you can establish good reason as use abroad then the same guidance states that there is no reason to establish good reason for an additional quarry condition i.e. deer in the UK.

 

[cjm1066]

Try goggling dangerous game, it relates to films.

A muntjac with it cannie teeth is dangerous to handle.

 

[Uncas]

Isn't it totally ridiculous this system we have over here, if you licence the man to have a certificate
what does it it matter how many guns you have, but instead they will insist on having each
firearm licenced on your ticket.
In Germany you licence the applicant not the guns as they are concerned about the character of the applicant.
Once you have passed your shooting test you can have what you like (I believe that is so).
At the end of the day you can use a knitting needle as a weapon.

 

[Loki]

Hi njc

Hmm - seems your local Polis Service is also going down the 'High Muzzle Energy' route a la TVP, not unlike my recent 'skirmish' with TVP re my 'heavy calibres', who eventually relented after a formal complaint and 15mths awaiting the outcome (after an initial 6mths trying to get the Licensing Team to see some 'common sense' (not that much is around in some circles) and use the HOG for the reason it was issued/provided. If there is intransigence it will be a battle requiring staying power and then some.

My FOI was completely ignored and then when the complaint was made it was on-hold 'as a polis investigation was in progress' as in my complaint!

Interestingly your Constabulary will only agree .270W for Boar and no more - leastways for me..............so there is a significant issue in their thinking/interpretation of Guidance or the Law.

L

PS notwithstanding I had evidence of use in Europe, US and Down Under............

 

[njc110381]

If you can establish good reason as use abroad then the same guidance states that there is no reason to establish good reason for an additional quarry condition i.e. deer in the UK.

Exactly. I attached the relevant sections of the guidelines to my response.

The issue I have here, as much as anything else, is that they have come to me saying that they made a mistake when they granted it for use in the UK and that they are only following the guidelines. That simply isn't true because we went through the whole thing in great detail and they wanted to grant it because other people in my force are had a .416, but not a .458 that I'd originally asked for. I was fine with the change because it seemed that a small detail would make their life easier. That on top of the "following the guidelines", which makes me feel like they're treating me like an idiot by making excuses, has got my back up.