FEO calling old references

[Stalker62]

None of my referees, new or old were contacted on my last renewal.

This was the case for three folk I know - and they all live in divers Counties.

 

[merlin]

This was the case for three folk I know - and they all live in divers Counties.

 

[Stalker62]

@merlin

 

[mel b3]

I have to use different referees every time , because at some point during the five years , they always realise that I'm a complete and utter knob , and won't vouch for me a second time .

 

[Dickie]

My last two both independently said they didn't like the process of being quizzed about me. Both said it was less of a friendly chit-chat and more like being interrogated by the Gestapo.

I'm not sure they'd want to be put as references again, but I'm also not sure the feo would like the answer if they asked them why

If this is correct they should both independently write to the head of the department and ask them to explain the actions of their department and explain why they are asking they are acting in such a way to someone.

 

[timbrayford]

I have to use different referees every time , because at some point during the five years , they always realise that I'm a complete and utter knob , and won't vouch for me a second time .

So what exactly is the excuse that the politicians came up with in imposing references on us? All it proves is your ability to beg favours off your friends?

 

[Pedro]

I think the police can make whatever enquiries they want in pursuance of granting/renewing your certificates. By applying to have them, you leave yourself open to that. There's no restrictions on what they can do and if you don't want them to do that, the thing to do is simply not apply. It is, as they say, what it is.

However - it's hard not to wonder if that system is in some way a vehicle whereby if someone inappropriate is given a certificate and if something unspeakable happens, then the police can potentially deflect some blame from themselves onto those referees. I suspect like many on here, we have been referees for friends or shooting acquaintances. I, for one, would not be a referee if I saw in the applicant anything that would give me any cause for concern.

 

[mel b3]

So what exactly is the excuse that the politicians came up with in imposing references on us? All it proves is your ability to beg favours off your friends?

So what exactly is the excuse that the politicians came up with in imposing references on us? All it proves is your ability to beg favours off your friends?

My post was purely in jest , but whilst I'm being serious , I'll say that I have no problems whatsoever with the police asking for referees .
I don't have to beg favours from friends , anymore than friends have to beg favours from me , that's just what friends do. It's no biggie.
Thinking about it , my mates are probably chuffed when all they have to do is take a two minute call from the police . Most of the times that I call them for a favour , it's 2am and I'm stuck in the mud in the middle of nowhere , and need a pull .

 

[timbrayford]

My post was purely in jest , but whilst I'm being serious , I'll say that I have no problems whatsoever with the police asking for referees .
I don't have to beg favours from friends , anymore than friends have to beg favours from me , that's just what friends do. It's no biggie.
Thinking about it , my mates are probably chuffed when all they have to do is take a two minute call from the police . Most of the times that I call them for a favour , it's 2am and I'm stuck in the mud in the middle of nowhere , and need a pull .

Well yes but in practical terms what of substance does that add to public safety?

 

[Apthorpe]

I think the police can make whatever enquiries they want in pursuance of granting/renewing your certificates.

What you say makes sense in two situations:
1. If the police can make any enquiries they like, then they can decide your application on any criteria they like. The reason the law and statutory guidance exist is to avoid the arbitrary and possibly unjust exercise of power.
2. They are making irrelevant enquiries which are a waste of the applicant's and members of the public's time, as well as a waste of police time and taxpayers money.
Neither of the situations appears desirable.

By applying to have them, you leave yourself open to that. There's no restrictions on what they can do and if you don't want them to do that, the thing to do is simply not apply. It is, as they say, what it is.

That is obviously a thoughtless and consequently, ludicrous statement. It is completely improper to suggest that the police are or ought to able to act in a completely unrestricted manner. Even more so to state that if you don't want the police to act in a particular way when you do something entirely legal, then you shouldn't do it. The job of the police is to uphold the law in a responsible manner and to protect the citizen and his legitimate interests, not to do the opposite.

However - it's hard not to wonder if that system is in some way a vehicle whereby if someone inappropriate is given a certificate and if something unspeakable happens, then the police can potentially deflect some blame from themselves onto those referees. I suspect like many on here, we have been referees for friends or shooting acquaintances. I, for one, would not be a referee if I saw in the applicant anything that would give me any cause for concern.

 

[mel b3]

Well yes but in practical terms what of substance does that add to public safety?

I suppose it's just a confirmation from two more independent people , that know you personally, and can vouch that you're a decent sort of person, that is relatively normal/stable , and unlikely to be unsafe , or any kind of threat to anyone , if trusted with a firearm, even in difficult situations .

Nothing is foolproof. I reckon plenty of folks would have told you that Harold shipman was a proper top fella , but , by using folks that know you , the chances of things going wrong are lessened.

I'm a referee for several shooting mates , and several shooting mates are referees for me( not the same mates) . None of us seems to have a problem being a referee , and in real terms , we're all far better placed to judge the suitability of each other to posses firearms , certainly much better than your doctor , that probably doesn't even know your name , and might not have ever met you.
If one of my shooting mates started showing any unusual signs of stress , aggression, or , any other kind of unsuitable behaviour , I'd be asking what was wrong , long before a doctor or feo was involved , and I'm as sure as I can be , that my referees would do exactly the same.

 

[Pedro]

What you say makes sense in two situations:
1. If the police can make any enquiries they like, then they can decide your application on any criteria they like. The reason the law and statutory guidance exist is to avoid the arbitrary and possibly unjust exercise of power.
2. They are making irrelevant enquiries which are a waste of the applicant's and members of the public's time, as well as a waste of police time and taxpayers money.
Neither of the situations appears desirable.

That is obviously a thoughtless and consequently, ludicrous statement. It is completely improper to suggest that the police are or ought to able to act in a completely unrestricted manner. Even more so to state that if you don't want the police to act in a particular way when you do something entirely legal, then you shouldn't do it. The job of the police is to uphold the law in a responsible manner and to protect the citizen and his legitimate interests, not to do the opposite.

I thought about going through your replies piecemeal somewhat like you did to my post. But life's too short. I do appreciate your views and agree with some but agree to disagree with some. I think I'll leave it there. In the meantime, expect the police to make what enquiries THEY feel appropriate, not what you or I think they should. Or indeed they might not make those enquiries. Cheers.

 

[timbrayford]

I suppose it's just a confirmation from two more independent people , that know you personally, and can vouch that you're a decent sort of person, that is relatively normal/stable , and unlikely to be unsafe , or any kind of threat to anyone , if trusted with a firearm, even in difficult situations .

Nothing is foolproof. I reckon plenty of folks would have told you that Harold shipman was a proper top fella , but , by using folks that know you , the chances of things going wrong are lessened.

I'm a referee for several shooting mates , and several shooting mates are referees for me( not the same mates) . None of us seems to have a problem being a referee , and in real terms , we're all far better placed to judge the suitability of each other to posses firearms , certainly much better than your doctor , that probably doesn't even know your name , and might not have ever met you.
If one of my shooting mates started showing any unusual signs of stress , aggression, or , any other kind of unsuitable behaviour , I'd be asking what was wrong , long before a doctor or feo was involved , and I'm as sure as I can be , that my referees would do exactly the same.

Without doubt Thomas Hamilton could have got the requisite good references from all local big wigs for whom he was procuring children to abuse, which to mind proves the total worthlessness of references?

 

[cra1gscott]

I’m in the process of my first renewal and I’d changed my references - both were people I worked with last time, and now both are friends with FACs. The FEO called the old references asking if we’d fallen out or if there’s any reason I shouldn’t have a gun.
Is this normal? It’s quite a clever move, but has left me slightly paranoid.

Yes perfectly normal happened to me last time as well.

 

[mel b3]

Without doubt Thomas Hamilton could have got the requisite good references from all local big wigs for whom he was procuring children to abuse, which to mind proves the total worthlessness of references?

Some people might be dodgy , and so might the referees that they use (thats just life), but on the whole , I would say that most referees are decent enough folks , and in the long run , using referees is a positive thing.
That's just my take on it all , but we'll all see things differently mate .