So are copper bullets the solution?

[eldon]

Interesting article telling us that battery vehicles may not eradicate all emissions, no 5hit Sherlock!

And apparently copper is to blame.........

"The researchers found that a higher concentration of copper in some commonly used brake pads was associated with increased harmful effects on sensitive cells from people’s lungs, as a result of particles being breathed in."

Brake pad dust can be more toxic than exhaust emissions, study says

Research shows move to electric vehicles may not be enough to enable pollution from cars to be eradicated

www.theguardian.com

 

[markj1]

Interesting article telling us that battery vehicles may not eradicate all emissions, no 5hit Sherlock!

And apparently copper is to blame.........

"The researchers found that a higher concentration of copper in some commonly used brake pads was associated with increased harmful effects on sensitive cells from people’s lungs, as a result of particles being breathed in."

Brake pad dust can be more toxic than exhaust emissions, study says

Research shows move to electric vehicles may not be enough to enable pollution from cars to be eradicated

www.theguardian.com

Electric vehicles produce little or no brake dust. This is because they are equipped with regenerative braking, meaning that majority of braking is done via recuperation, and the mechanical brakes are rarely used.

How do I know this? Because my 3 years old EV just had an advisory for corrosion on the brake discs.... apparently you're meant to hit the brakes hard every now and then, to force the car to use both the regenerative braking and the mechanical brakes (which it does when maximum braking force if required, e.g. in an emergency braking) - but pottering around central London at 20mph (the speed limit), as I do, will never get the car to use the disc brakes.

Having said that... I don't think that electric vehicles are the solution to our pollution or emissions issue. Personally, I would ban all private vehicles from city centres and allow only public transport (similarly to how it's done in Oxford and other places). And, as long as you're not going into urban areas, you should be able to drive whatever old Diesel car that you wish to drive. But this is just my view.

 

[shakey jake]

Electric vehicles produce little or no brake dust. This is because they are equipped with regenerative braking, meaning that majority of braking is done via recuperation, and the mechanical brakes are rarely used.

How do I know this? Because my 3 years old EV just had an advisory for corrosion on the brake discs.... apparently you're meant to hit the brakes hard every now and then, to force the car to use both the regenerative braking and the mechanical brakes (which it does when maximum braking force if required, e.g. in an emergency braking) - but pottering around central London at 20mph (the speed limit), as I do, will never get the car to use the disc brakes.

Having said that... I don't think that electric vehicles are the solution to our pollution or emissions issue. Personally, I would ban all private vehicles from city centres and allow only public transport (similarly to how it's done in Oxford and other places). And, as long as you're not going into urban areas, you should be able to drive whatever old Diesel car that you wish to drive. But this is just my view.

How do trades and delivery work in cities with your idea?

 

[markj1]

How do trades and delivery work in cities with your idea?

I would imagine that tradesmen and delivery vans and couriers, etc, operating in Oxford and other cities with similar arrangements, have some sort of permit system in place?

 

[markj1]

In any event, looking at the chockablock traffic in London during rushhour... this is not sustainable. We have more and more cars on the road every year, and our streets are not getting any wider.

Anyhooo... back to copper bullets

 

[nun_hunter]

Two things to bear in mind: Firstly, microplastics are probably more of an issue, and all cars, no matter how "green", shed tyre rubber every journey.

Secondly, electric vehicles are here to save the car industry, not to save the planet.

 

[co’den]

Electric vehicles produce little or no brake dust. This is because they are equipped with regenerative braking, meaning that majority of braking is done via recuperation, and the mechanical brakes are rarely used.

Really?

 

[timbrayford]

Wouldn't it be simpler to dismiss all this eco extremist nonsense altogether?

 

[sauer]

taxi company in dundee has 28x electric motors and 2x diesel motors

apparently his drivers fight over who DOESNT get the deisle burners .. they dont want them

he says they change the brake pads on diesel motors every 15-20k miles
on electric motor its 25-30k miles apparently due to regen braking

Paul

 

[artschool]

I would imagine that tradesmen and delivery vans and couriers, etc, operating in Oxford and other cities with similar arrangements, have some sort of permit system in place?

of course our politicians would need these permits as well.

 

[markj1]

Really?

Err... yes. Have a Google: "regenerative braking". That's how it works. The brake discs and pads on modern EVs are supposed to be good for the life of the car. I only had mine for just over 3 years, so I don't know about 'good for the life of the car', but certainly so far the brake discs and pads appear to have had very little use.

 

[webley701]

Having said that... I don't think that electric vehicles are the solution to our pollution or emissions issue. Personally, I would ban all private vehicles from city centres and allow only public transport (similarly to how it's done in Oxford and other places). And, as long as you're not going into urban areas, you should be able to drive whatever old Diesel car that you wish to drive. But this is just my view.

Have you really thought of the full implications of your ‘ban’?

It just shows that the desire to ban things isn’t limited to those who ‘personally don’t think firearms should be allowed’.

 

[Smellydog]

I've been saying this for ages. Copper is toxic.
It's also harder than lead. I'd rather a piece of ingested lead pass through my gut than accidentally swallowing a piece from a copper bullet.

 

[co’den]

Err... yes. Have a Google: "regenerative braking". That's how it works. The brake discs and pads on modern EVs are supposed to be good for the life of the car. I only had mine for just over 3 years, so I don't know about 'good for the life of the car', but certainly so far the brake discs and pads appear to have had very little use.

You know regenerative braking has been a thing on conventional powered vehicles for a long while? It’s just a way of recovering energy that would otherwise be lost.
The reason your brakes wear less on an EV is because the electric motors have a greater “engine braking” effect than a petrol or a diesel. You’re unlikely to wear the brakes on on any car kicking about London at 20mph.
The tyres on an EV however, wear a lot faster due to the significant additional weight being carried. Tyre rubber is a massive polluter.
Don’t get me wrong. I like EV’s and I think they’ve got their place but environmentally, they’re not an improvement. I also like my hilux. Tyres and brakes last me around 50k miles.

 

[markj1]

The tyres on an EV however, wear a lot faster due to the significant additional weight being carried. Tyre rubber is a massive polluter.
Don’t get me wrong. I like EV’s and I think they’ve got their place but environmentally, they’re not an improvement. I also like my hilux. Tyres and brakes last me around 50k miles.

As I said, I think that the only way forward is to limit private cars' access to city centres. Yes, buses, delivery vans, and tradesmen double-cabs, etc., are all very heavy and have big tyres, and so will cause more brake pads dust and tyre rubber pollution per car than private vehicles, but we will have a lot less of this type of pollution overall if we have a lot less vehicles travelling in to town.

 

[markj1]

Have you really thought of the full implications of your ‘ban’?

It just shows that the desire to ban things isn’t limited to those who ‘personally don’t think firearms should be allowed’.

I am basing my proposals on existing arrangements that have been in place in some cities for quite a while now. I am not an urban traffic engineer and have no idea about the details, but you can find some more info here:

The towns that want to control where you can drive

www.carwow.co.uk

That was about the UK, the link below is about what's going on in Europe:

Take a Walk: The Cities Around Europe That Are Banning Cars — Europe of Cities

Why did the cars in cities like Oslo, Ghent, and Paris stop driving? They were tired! All jokes aside, more and more cities are giving cars the thumbs down, and it may just be something that we give the green light!

www.europeofcities.com

It may not be for everyone.... but my point is that there's no such thing as a 'green' car... however powered. And so we should try and get the cars away from urban areas, to the extent that this is possible.

 

[markj1]

You know regenerative braking has been a thing on conventional powered vehicles for a long while? It’s just a way of recovering energy that would otherwise be lost.
The reason your brakes wear less on an EV is because the electric motors have a greater “engine braking” effect than a petrol or a diesel. You’re unlikely to wear the brakes on on any car kicking about London at 20mph.

True, but on an ICE-powered car, the most it can do is top-up the 12V battery, so not much saving there. On my EV, when I am driving downhill, it's actually charging the battery... when I drove down from the Swiss Alps last year, I arrived at the valley below with more battery percentage than when I left (but of course I used more energy to get up to the mountains in the first place..). In slow city driving around London, around 30% of the electricity used to power the car, is fed back into the battery via regenerative braking (according to the onboard computer, anyway).

 

[markj1]

I've been saying this for ages. Copper is toxic.
It's also harder than lead. I'd rather a piece of ingested lead pass through my gut than accidentally swallowing a piece from a copper bullet.

That's what the American CDC has to say about it:

Copper | ToxFAQs™ | ATSDR

wwwn.cdc.gov

"How can copper affect my health?​

It is essential for people to ingest small amounts of copper every day in food and water. Ingesting too much or too little copper can lead to illness and/or disease. Ingesting a high amount of copper, usually in drinking water, can cause vomiting, nausea, abdominal pain, and/or diarrhea. Ingesting higher than recommended amounts of copper every day over time, such as in water or in copper supplements, can lead to severe illness, such as kidney and liver damage.

Breathing in copper dusts, sprays, or crystals can irritate your nose and throat and cause dizziness and headaches. People who have ingested these substances have gotten very sick and/or died.

Copper is essential to the development of babies and children and is found in breast milk. Babies and children are expected to have symptoms similar to adults when exposed to high levels of copper in air, water, or food. If you have a disorder that causes copper to build up in your body, like Wilson’s disease, you may be especially vulnerable to high copper levels in air, food, or water."

I am obviously not suggesting that anyone should swallow copper pellets or rounds on purpose.... but from the above, it does not seem like a massive risk if it does happen rarely?

 

[GlennUK]

In any event, looking at the chockablock traffic in London during rushhour... this is not sustainable. We have more and more cars on the road every year, and our streets are not getting any wider.

Anyhooo... back to copper bullets

As it goes i reckon that in central london there are fewer vehicles and less driveable roads courtesy of our friend the mayor.

 

[Dunwaters]

Interesting article telling us that battery vehicles may not eradicate all emissions, no 5hit Sherlock!

And apparently copper is to blame.........

"The researchers found that a higher concentration of copper in some commonly used brake pads was associated with increased harmful effects on sensitive cells from people’s lungs, as a result of particles being breathed in."

Brake pad dust can be more toxic than exhaust emissions, study says

Research shows move to electric vehicles may not be enough to enable pollution from cars to be eradicated

www.theguardian.com

They’re not going to stop until there are no private vehicles.
Every time a problem is identified and solved, the Greenies invent a new problem.
Go with the flow, get a bus pass, a bicycle and a decent pair of walking shoes.