Advice on gun licence being revoked please.

[MAH]

To be honest though, the 'assault' aspect (fairly minor, and arguably justifiable as it is) will no doubt count against you

@fishingcinma .
Forgive me if this is too blunt.
I agree with the 1st reply @VSS and the above and woould add to them...

The repeat speeding shows a pattern, you repeat mistakes!
On there own they didn't stop your 1st application.

However..
Add in the assault and that you mentioned the guy in question works with your daughter.
So the cause of the assault is still present.
I guess they will be thinking there is significant risk that he'll pester her again, and you might loose your temper again. (Repeating a mistake)
Maybe things will escalate further

Also, you've said your daughter self harms, and you worry it might get worst.
That may have added to a view, based on the other factors, that it's too risky to have firearms in your house.

It might not seam fare, but the police role in this is safe guard the public.

Be carful how much money you spend fighting it.

Focus on your daughter. Hope she gets better and you can apply again.

M.

 

[fishingcinma]

@fishingcinma .
Forgive me if this is too blunt.
I agree with the 1st reply @VSS and the above and woould add to them...

The repeat speeding shows a pattern, you repeat mistakes!
On there own they didn't stop your 1st application.

However..
Add in the assault and that you mentioned the guy in question works with your daughter.
So the cause of the assault is still present.
I guess they will be thinking there is significant risk that he'll pester her again, and you might loose your temper again. (Repeating a mistake)
Maybe things will escalate further

Also, you've said your daughter self harms, and you worry it might get worst.
That may have added to a view, based on the other factors, that it's too risky to have firearms in your house.

It might not seam fare, but the police role in this is safe guard the public.

Be carful how much money you spend fighting it.

Focus on your daughter. Hope she gets better and you can apply again.

M.

Thank you for your honest opinion and certainly don't think your being blunt, I've asked for peoples opinions good or bad.

I hear where you are coming from repeat mistakes and him still working with Daughter they may well see this being too risky.

I didn't see the link between the risk of my Daughter self harming and having guns in the house as they are locked away and they keys hidden in 2 separate places not even the wife knows the location of the keys, but can see how this could have crossed their minds.

Many thanks again

 

[Apthorpe]

@fishingcinma .
Forgive me if this is too blunt.
I agree with the 1st reply @VSS and the above and woould add to them...

The repeat speeding shows a pattern, you repeat mistakes!
On there own they didn't stop your 1st application.

Nor any successive application. To cite 19 year old minor speeding offences as indicative of anything today is completely ridiculous. Pattern or no pattern.

However..
Add in the assault and that you mentioned the guy in question works with your daughter.
So the cause of the assault is still present.
I guess they will be thinking there is significant risk that he'll pester her again, and you might loose your temper again. (Repeating a mistake)

In which case, the approprate sanction is to caution the other man.

Maybe things will escalate further

Also, you've said your daughter self harms, and you worry it might get worst.
That may have added to a view, based on the other factors, that it's too risky to have firearms in your house.

It may do, but that is not what the police considered.

It might not seam fare, but the police role in this is safe guard the public.

No. The role of the police is to uphold the law. That is paramount over any other duty.

Be carful how much money you spend fighting it.

Focus on your daughter. Hope she gets better and you can apply again.

M.

 

[Liveonce]

Maybe things will escalate further

Also, you've said your daughter self harms, and you worry it might get worst.
That may have added to a view, based on the other factors, that it's too risky to have firearms in your house.

It may do, but that is not what the police considered.

They do consider who else lives in the house and hence potential access to the firearms. And any history of who the people living in the house are associated with.

 

[cjm1066]

The speeding offences were before you were granted a certificate/they were renewed.

The physical interaction is alas the key point, you have concided on this.

Your daughter it sounds like your focus needs to be helping her. That your guns are temporarily removed might limit further claims in a similar way to removing firearms during a contentious divorce.

Focus on your family, when they are safe apply again.

 

[fishingcinma]

It may do, but that is not what the police considered.

They do consider who else lives in the house and hence potential access to the firearms. And any history of who the people living in the house are associated with.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Rake Aboot]

The speeding just looks like padding that they have dug up to add an air of legitimacy
They used the issue with the guy to take guns which is something they seem to be actively trying to do at any opportunity.

On the plus side , nowt really from stopping you laying the guy out next time now though ! Hah.

Silver linings etc .

 

[fishingcinma]

The speeding offences were before you were granted a certificate/they were renewed.

The physical interaction is alas the key point, you have concided on this.

Your daughter it sounds like your focus needs to be helping her. That your guns are temporarily removed might limit further claims in a similar way to removing firearms during a contentious divorce.

Focus on your family, when they are safe apply again.

The 3 sp30's were before my first licence as my first license was issued in 04/2016

The sp30 with failing to identify driver was 10/2018.

Licence renewal was issued 04/2021

We are focusing on helping our Daughter in every way possible.

Thank you for your advise.

 

[BenBhoy]

Now I know that there was no excuses for grabbing him.

I'd say there was every excuse for grabbing him. Nothing comes before family.

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Congratulations on standing up for your daughter

In the woke world we now live in full of fannies id rather be a man first.

 

[MAH]

No. The role of the police is to uphold the law. That is paramount over any other duty.

@fishingcinima

Hi @Apthorpe.
I based my comments on the following.
Please see screen shots.

You may be right about the caution.
And many folk reading the OP might feel the same.
But if there isn't sufficient evidence maybe they can't. ?
So they are left with the choices they've made.


M.

 

[MAH]

but that is not what the police considered

Said they considered...

M

 

[Apthorpe]

@fishingcinima

Hi @Apthorpe.
I based my comments on the following.
Please see screen shots.

You may be right about the caution.
And many folk reading the OP might feel the same.
But if there isn't sufficient evidence maybe they can't. ?
So they are left with the choices they've made.


M.
View attachment 408936
View attachment 408937

The “State” has a duty. That is not “the police has a duty” far less that it is the paramount duty of the police. To be fair, it is a common attitude among police leaders that their view of “public safety” is more important than the law.

 

[MAH]

I didn't see the link between the risk of my Daughter self harming and having guns in the house as they are locked away

Your right, your guns must be locked away.
But the police have a long history and a good memory.
They will know that on occasions this 1st line of security is compromised, e.g. cleaning etc.

So they will be thinking if and when that happens, are there other things that amplify the risk .

It's extremely unlikely you'll have a burglary on the odd occasion the guns are outside there normal storage.
But if a member of the household has a possible suicidal tenancy, that's a much greater risk.

Think of it a different way. They may be doing you a favour.

Best wishes.

M

 

[ColinJ]

If you appeal, and lose, you are looking at £20,000 in costs.
Courts really don’t like overturning revocations.
I don’t know why so many commentators are talking about waiting 5 years. In some counties new applications will be considered after 3 years if the circumstances that caused the revocation have changed.

So my penny’s worth, don’t appeal, make sure the circumstances that brought this about change, then reapply in 3 years.

 

[Jeff8861]

If you appeal, and lose, you are looking at £20,000 in costs.
Courts really don’t like overturning revocations.
I don’t know why so many commentators are talking about waiting 5 years. In some counties new applications will be considered after 3 years if the circumstances that caused the revocation have changed.

So my penny’s worth, don’t appeal, make sure the circumstances that brought this about change, then reapply in 3 years.

My thoughts are that the flm prefers the term of a certificate. If he applies at the three year point it will probably take nearer to the 5 years to be granted. Probably should have mentioned that on my initial post.

 

[Blaser243]

Ok - so the advice on here is a mix of good, bad and questionable. For clarity, I am a solicitor, I don't practice firearms law (although I take a strong interest) and I am not professing to offer you any legal advice here, not least because I cannot be sure that I have all the facts. This is just friendly guidance, as others are offering, but tempered with some direct knowledge of the police and the court system.

Appeal - if the money isn't an bar, go ahead and do it within the 21 days - clock is running, there is no way to extend that period. It will cost you at least £10k, perhaps more depending who you use (and pay peanuts, get monkeys, remember). There is a case here that a competent and experienced legal professional can make. It certainly isn't black and white that you have a continuous history making you unsuitable. -Most of those speeding offences have been not only eclipsed by time, but also the police have already accepted that there is no course of behaviour to concern them by renewing your certificates several times since then. If it was an issue, they should have revoked long since.

As for reapplying now or in five years - appealing does not prevent you from doing this either.

Conversation with the FLO? Waste of time now in my opinion. The decision to revoke was made, very quickly, so they won't alter that on discussion with the FLO, however nice a guy he tells them you are.

Ultimately, police forces now take the approach of seizing and revoking first, asking questions later in many more situations than ever before. It is a question of risk management - they don't want to manage the risk of another Plymouth happening in their back yard. They'd much rather it got punted off to a judge to deal with than hear that their Chief Constable was being criticized for giving someone back their guns. That is the nub of it, sadly.

 

[Pete6.5]

Forget about your guns and shooting for a while and help your daughter get the help she needs. Nothing is more important than your family and the people you love.

 

[Jeff8861]

Ok - so the advice on here is a mix of good, bad and questionable. For clarity, I am a solicitor, I don't practice firearms law (although I take a strong interest) and I am not professing to offer you any legal advice here, not least because I cannot be sure that I have all the facts. This is just friendly guidance, as others are offering, but tempered with some direct knowledge of the police and the court system.

Appeal - if the money isn't an bar, go ahead and do it within the 21 days - clock is running, there is no way to extend that period. It will cost you at least £10k, perhaps more depending who you use (and pay peanuts, get monkeys, remember). There is a case here that a competent and experienced legal professional can make. It certainly isn't black and white that you have a continuous history making you unsuitable. -Most of those speeding offences have been not only eclipsed by time, but also the police have already accepted that there is no course of behaviour to concern them by renewing your certificates several times since then. If it was an issue, they should have revoked long since.

As for reapplying now or in five years - appealing does not prevent you from doing this either.

Conversation with the FLO? Waste of time now in my opinion. The decision to revoke was made, very quickly, so they won't alter that on discussion with the FLO, however nice a guy he tells them you are.

Ultimately, police forces now take the approach of seizing and revoking first, asking questions later in many more situations than ever before. It is a question of risk management - they don't want to manage the risk of another Plymouth happening in their back yard. They'd much rather it got punted off to a judge to deal with than hear that their Chief Constable was being criticized for giving someone back their guns. That is the nub of it, sadly.

In regards to the speeding offences, there are no time limits to this or any other minor offences. There is also a dishonesty offence. It shows a pattern of behaviour. When it comes to offenses involving violence you will lose you guns regardless if it's a section 39 or a section 18. Again regardless if you accept a caution charged or issued with community resolution. Fld can and will use incidents where you may have not been charged and nfa against you. In regards to the process if you are involved in an incident after hours the control room inspector will request a voluntary surrender or issue a revocation. Once the risk has been removed and the criminal offences have been sorted one way or the other the matter will then be passed back to the fld. The flm will then decide if you are a suitable person to possess firearms. If you are you will have you're property returned. So removing guns then carrying out investigation is the standard way of operating.

 

[HandB]

Well done for standing up to the man who was harassing your daughter. Family is more important than some bits of metal and wood. With regard to firearms, as others have said maybe for the next five years consider pursuing other activities as you may be surprised as to what catches your attention. For example, shooting has been my main sport since I was young but during lockdown I got into running to try to lose weight and now if I had to choose between shooting and running I would pick running.