Why so many ?

[k760]

I've been shooting a while now and have experience of shooting for pot and pest control, but one thing I don't understand yet is why do some shoot so many deer?

I appreciate the conservation and control reason, also the commercial aspect, perhaps even the meat aspect, but is it that land owners are seeking total eradication ? Some folk talk of going out 4 or 5 times a week.

I might hit the bunnies on my permission every other week for a couple of hours but I get to double figures and think that's probably enough. Same with pheasant shooting - I'll take a few brace but stop after that. Only exception are rats and greys. Not saying that's right or wrong just how I do it.

I'm not trying to be smart or criticise, I'm just keep to know more!

 

[spurs14]

According to most sources there are more deer in the country then ever before , quite simply they need to be controlled as they have no natural predator .
In most areas they damage crops , trees , trample gardens , damage hedgerows , cause road traffic accidents etc the numbers have to be kept to a reasonable level , most large estates or land owners will employ a deer manager , their job simply to conduct surveys and bring the deer down to a manageable level , these are the people who are out culling large numbers , add some agents who will be out with clients most days they will cull reasonable numbers then you have the leisure stalkers who will maybe be out once a week or month and take one or two for the freezer !
No one is after total eradication but aim to bring numbers down to a reasonable level for their land , there are some areas nature reserves or organisations who should know better who do not control numbers this leads to an over population , competing for limited food , in breeding and generally very poor condition of deer with starvation and disease being an issue

 

[wytonpjs]

I’ll just leave this out there

 

[Bo Diddley]

Far too many deer are about generally. If you see the damage a herd of 100 Reds can do to a beet field in one night, you can understand why farmers want numbers down.

Too few people with too much land to shoot, needs to be spread about about bit more to allow those who are keen but have no land of their own to shoot over.... just don't ask for any of our stalking though

 

[k760]

We have herds of 40/50 of roe and fallow, with the occasional muntjac and cwd, but I guess some folk have several times that.

Would you say despite the numbers being shot, the population continues to rise, albeit at a slower rate than previously? Or is it the culling hardly impacts numbers at all?

 

[spurs14]

If you look at the fact numbers are higher now than they ever have been then you have to be on the side of present culling rates are not high enough !

 

[Bo Diddley]

Nobody's really getting on top of the job. Prices for a carcass at the gamedealer makes it not very financially rewarding, hence it's a hobby to a lot of folks.

 

[finnbear270]

All of the above, and some stalkers are employed to shoot deer without counting them up, some stalkers are living right on top of high deer numbers, so will be able to get on to deer many times in a week.

 

[k760]

Wasn't there a scheme that was being looked at to get folk into eating game meat in the UK? I see venison is still attracting high prices at the butchers yet as above, the carcass price is pitiful. Where are all the celeb chefs advocating local dinners?! Are the public at large ignorant of the benefits of local produce like venison or is it they still see Bambi on their plate ?

 

[spurs14]

Another problem many have is finding land permission , it’s difficult unless you actually know the land owner to get them to trust you wandering their land armed , some clubs or syndicates pay land owners thousands of pounds annually to tie up their land for themselves and then not do the job properly !
Carcasses are worth nothing to game dealers so unless you shoot a high number it’s not worth the effort to take them in , some can be sold on to friends or home butchered and sold on , it’s the effort / reward !
Many people try to take up stalking but drift out of it as the opportunity to get out becomes harder to find unless you pay , and there’s some horror stories there !
It’s a pity either the bds or basc couldn’t get some sort of government dept funding to set up a members register and subsidise the land owner to acquire permissions over the country and get all the leisure stalkers more opportunity to get out , it would be win/win , the government want the deer shot , farmers want them kept in check , stalkers would do the job for free , they would gain more members and if you had a minimum of dsc1 more people signing up for training !

 

[nun_hunter]

Wasn't there a scheme that was being looked at to get folk into eating game meat in the UK? I see venison is still attracting high prices at the butchers yet as above, the carcass price is pitiful. Where are all the celeb chefs advocating local dinners?! Are the public at large ignorant of the benefits of local produce like venison or is it they still see Bambi on their plate ?

Winnie the Pooh forest culling scheme donates 170,000 meals - BBC News

Not sure if this is the same scheme but it's a good start (if you get past the sloppy reporting of some details).

 

[k760]

My mentor a few years ago used to make burgers and steaks and distribute them to the needy or hard up in our local area. Sounds like a similar scheme but without the press coverage - I imagine there are a few folk on here doing the same?

 

[Bo Diddley]

Wasn't there a scheme that was being looked at to get folk into eating game meat in the UK? I see venison is still attracting high prices at the butchers yet as above, the carcass price is pitiful. Where are all the celeb chefs advocating local dinners?! Are the public at large ignorant of the benefits of local produce like venison or is it they still see Bambi on their plate ?

The general public is so far removed from living with what nature has to offer, it's ridiculous.

Marketing & packaging of crap food like supermarket ready meals & McDonalds has got 90% of the population walking like Zoombies in the Walking Dead to the easy option of shovelling rubbish down their necks.

A few more programmes like Hugh Fernley Whittingstall's early River Cottage series on TV wouldn't go amiss. We need to make self-sufficiency sexy again to lure the younger generation back into The Good Life... and forget about Love Island, botox & lip filler.

The field sports community needs to market itself a bit more, maybe produce a healthy ready meal from game and distribute it to the elderly, create some positive feedback for fieldsports.
Look at all the pheasants and partridges that you can't give away a month into the season. This is probably already being done in a small way, but it needs to be national and on an industrial scale almost.

 

[Jagdmatch]

These appeared on a small bit of ground I shoot on 29th April. Not seen before and I am out a lot. All yearlings. I actually think now there are two main issues, night shooting moving deer around more ( I do not disagree with night shooting but Natural England should be taken to task in relation to to their approach) and probably more pertinent is the amount of house building having a significant impact on the land are that the deer had inhabited.
On the other hand a farm that was cereal production has changed to sheep grazing and the number of fallow seen and shot has declined although this may be due to other stalkers. I have been shooting deer for around 30 years in the Weald the numbers have steadily increased over that time.

 

[k760]

The general public is so far removed from living with what nature has to offer, it's ridiculous.

Marketing & packaging of crap food like supermarket ready meals & McDonalds has got 90% of the population walking like Zoombies in the Walking Dead to the easy option of shovelling rubbish down their necks.

A few more programmes like Hugh Fernley Whittingstall's early River Cottage series on TV wouldn't go amiss. We need to make self-sufficiency sexy again to lure the younger generation back into The Good Life... and forget about Love Island, botox & lip filler.

The field sports community needs to market itself a bit more, maybe produce a healthy ready meal from game and distribute it to the elderly, create some positive feedback for fieldsports.
Look at all the pheasants and partridges that you can't give away a month into the season. This is probably already being done in a small way, but it needs to be national and on an industrial scale almost.

I agree. I think most folk are entirely ignorant when it comes to food and the benefits of game meats. The idea of most people prepping food these days is laughable , which is a real shame. The good thing about social media is that there are loads of folk demonstrating how to kill, clean and cook things but I guess it only really attracts those who have a modicum of interest in the first place. I would imagine most kids wouldn't know what a 'venison' is, let alone watch a gory video online when actually what they all seem to be obsessed with are the bro videos and how to make money or people falling off things.

In the nicest possible way, forums like this as good as they are, are really an echo chamber. Some brave souls might venture in now and again but how can we market to the masses? An school educational programme seems to make sense. The problem is money - people don't like spending it and unless people can make it, it's less likely a cause will be taken up.

It's a crying shame. As a father of two we've been very lucky our boys eat what they are given and we avoid junk at all costs. They love pheasant, venison, pigeon... We don't make our own clothes and live under a hide in the woods, we're just lucky to have an interest in eating local and off the land (not our land). If we can, most can. Perhaps they just need showing how.

 

[Tim.243]

I've been shooting a while now and have experience of shooting for pot and pest control, but one thing I don't understand yet is why do some shoot so many deer?

I appreciate the conservation and control reason, also the commercial aspect, perhaps even the meat aspect, but is it that land owners are seeking total eradication ? Some folk talk of going out 4 or 5 times a week.

I might hit the bunnies on my permission every other week for a couple of hours but I get to double figures and think that's probably enough. Same with pheasant shooting - I'll take a few brace but stop after that. Only exception are rats and greys. Not saying that's right or wrong just how I do it.

I'm not trying to be smart or criticise, I'm just keep to know more!

Ask yourself why are there so many deer Fallow/Muntjac as a good example? This will roll into all the other threads with this type of question. Each side will have their own versions'

A question for yourself if you shoot pigeons (crop protection) do you stop shooting them when you get to a certain number? 10 20 30 >?

A few guides leave muntjac during the summer months as people can/will want a trophy head so they get left, however the does get left also then you have even more, Fallow are close to the same.

My small fallow block has these either side of it as a lot of people having the same issue, so go out when you can,
much better to go out in your slippers and shoot a few.



Hillbilly Lee has the answer.

 

[Demetrius]

Bo Diddley said: "Prices for a carcass at the game dealer makes it not very financially rewarding...." Really??

Not if you've seen the prices charged for venison generally in supermarkets, and some of the "boutique" farm shops and market stalls down here near the south coast...someone is being rewarded financially forsure.

D.

 

[nun_hunter]

Bo Diddley said: "Prices for a carcass at the game dealer makes it not very financially rewarding...." Really??

Not if you've seen the prices charged for venison generally in supermarkets, and some of the "boutique" farm shops and market stalls down here near the south coast...someone is being rewarded financially forsure.

D.

Production and running costs in the UK are very high, running a chiller must cost a fortune in electricity not to mention all the other associated larder costs, waste disposal staff wages etc. everyone in the chain needs to make a bit of profit. A dirty carcass covered in fur is a far cry from a nicely trimmed and packaged steak in a chilled shop display counter.

Much in the same way a fresh felled walnut log is far cheaper than a hand finished stock on a London best shotgun.

 

[David Barker]

We have herds of 40/50 of roe and fallow, with the occasional muntjac and cwd, but I guess some folk have several times that.

Would you say despite the numbers being shot, the population continues to rise, albeit at a slower rate than previously? Or is it the culling hardly impacts numbers at all?

I have never seen a heard of Roe and 50 would be a very nice sight.

 

[Tim.243]

Bo Diddley said: "Prices for a carcass at the game dealer makes it not very financially rewarding...." Really??

Not if you've seen the prices charged for venison generally in supermarkets, and some of the "boutique" farm shops and market stalls down here near the south coast...someone is being rewarded financially forsure.

D.

Sounds like a touch of the Jeremy Corby's Now where is that Red Book