Why so many ?

[Donkey Basher]

Why blame a old boy i am 68 and out 2 or 3 times per week but F A on my permission but i still go out.
Been trying to get perm in west Sussex as my son in law lives there but so many anti land owners

This is nothing personal but there does seem to be a fair amount of selfishness amongst stalkers - usually older guys who have had the stalking for years & don’t want to give it up, & I totally understand that as they’ll no doubt enjoy the opportunity to get out just as much as me or the next man. However, instead of working with the younger generation to bring them along & let them do the hard work whilst keeping access to the ground themselves, they seem to go out of their way to stop newcomers whatever. I was victim of this when I very first started out, after helping a local keeper I used to go beating for with his released pheasants one summer he asked if I wanted to go out & shoot a deer on 1 August - I did, I shot a fallow pricket. After that he took me out more & more to the point where he said I should apply for an FAC & said I could put him down as a referee & that ‘his lordship’ had agreed I could use the estate for my good reason. Roll forward to the beaters day shoot & there was this guy ‘Malcom’ we’ll call him, he was a retired copper from the next county & I’d never met him before but he was a friend of the keeper so not unusual him being there. At the end of the day as I was putting dog, etc. back in the car he came over & with no-one looking pinned me up against the car & told me in no uncertain words what he’d do if I ever came stalking there again! He wasn’t the only person the keeper had helping him out & after I’d mentioned this to the keeper he never went there again. That, however, was my introduction to stalking!

Then there are the farms where they don’t want change, they’ve had old Tom shooting the deer since the last century & it’d kill him off if someone else came along.

There’s also the farms where the older generation of shooters have now passed away & the youngsters either have no idea of management or worse still simply don’t want a shoot or stalking on the ground.

Finally, & apologies but it has to be said, there are the hobby stalkers who get a piece of ground & pop down as & when to take “one for the pot” but aren’t really interested in, or geared up for, taking larger numbers, either in one visit or over a period of time, to manage the populations. I have nothing against them enjoying heir hobby/sport but if they get a “permission” they should make sure they do their bit with it, whether that means taking more deer off it themselves if it needs to be done or perhaps sharing it with others so that between them they can cull reasonable numbers.

Just my experience in the first instance, observations of trends locally & thoughts latterly.

 

[bottletopbill]

Hampshire was where I shot my first deer and shot the deer in minutes on my first stalk.
Only wished i could get a chance to shoot more deer but my perm in Kent as no deer.

 

[Apthorpe]

Last year I shot 49 muntjac in a 13 acre block over 8 months 1 mile down the road 60 in 3 years from 5 acres
So the tally in 1 mile was 69.

It makes good sense that we don't know what the deer population is with numerous member typing about it instead of doing it.

Your point being what?

 

[Jono 4]

In recent years ive been asked if I would be interested in taking the stalking on two large estates, I’ve known both estates and whats required on them, both have expected me to pay for the privilege of controlling large herds of fallow, I’ve had conversations with the agents for both estates, and both needed in excess of 200 fallow a year culling over a number of years to have a beneficial effect on the woodland, both have asked how much I would pay them to do the job, and couldn’t comprehend that I would be prepared to pay them to do a job and wanted paying to do it, until this changes I cant see numbers of herding deer reducing. One of the estates let the stalking to someone shooting around 6 deer a year, but still has an ever increasing deer problem.

 

[Tim.243]

Your point being what?

Your soapbox seems to get far more use than your deer stands

 

[Chris Richardson]

In recent years ive been asked if I would be interested in taking the stalking on two large estates, I’ve known both estates and whats required on them, both have expected me to pay for the privilege of controlling large herds of fallow, I’ve had conversations with the agents for both estates, and both needed in excess of 200 fallow a year culling over a number of years to have a beneficial effect on the woodland, both have asked how much I would pay them to do the job, and couldn’t comprehend that I would be prepared to pay them to do a job and wanted paying to do it, until this changes I cant see numbers of herding deer reducing. One of the estates let the stalking to someone shooting around 6 deer a year, but still has an ever increasing deer problem.

I had the same last year offered a large shoot 15 mins away but I’ve too much on to do it properly alongside other stalking so I declined

 

[Sheamus]

This is nothing personal but there does seem to be a fair amount of selfishness amongst stalkers - usually older guys who have had the stalking for years & don’t want to give it up, & I totally understand that as they’ll no doubt enjoy the opportunity to get out just as much as me or the next man. However, instead of working with the younger generation to bring them along & let them do the hard work whilst keeping access to the ground themselves, they seem to go out of their way to stop newcomers whatever. I was victim of this when I very first started out, after helping a local keeper I used to go beating for with his released pheasants one summer he asked if I wanted to go out & shoot a deer on 1 August - I did, I shot a fallow pricket. After that he took me out more & more to the point where he said I should apply for an FAC & said I could put him down as a referee & that ‘his lordship’ had agreed I could use the estate for my good reason. Roll forward to the beaters day shoot & there was this guy ‘Malcom’ we’ll call him, he was a retired copper from the next county & I’d never met him before but he was a friend of the keeper so not unusual him being there. At the end of the day as I was putting dog, etc. back in the car he came over & with no-one looking pinned me up against the car & told me in no uncertain words what he’d do if I ever came stalking there again! He wasn’t the only person the keeper had helping him out & after I’d mentioned this to the keeper he never went there again. That, however, was my introduction to stalking!

Then there are the farms where they don’t want change, they’ve had old Tom shooting the deer since the last century & it’d kill him off if someone else came along.

There’s also the farms where the older generation of shooters have now passed away & the youngsters either have no idea of management or worse still simply don’t want a shoot or stalking on the ground.

Finally, & apologies but it has to be said, there are the hobby stalkers who get a piece of ground & pop down as & when to take “one for the pot” but aren’t really interested in, or geared up for, taking larger numbers, either in one visit or over a period of time, to manage the populations. I have nothing against them enjoying heir hobby/sport but if they get a “permission” they should make sure they do their bit with it, whether that means taking more deer off it themselves if it needs to be done or perhaps sharing it with others so that between them they can cull reasonable numbers.

Just my experience in the first instance, observations of trends locally & thoughts latterly.

You know what Donkey id of made quite clear to Malcom that if he ever approached me again that he would be put on his arse.. Nothing worse than an arrogant ex copper..

 

[k760]

This is nothing personal but there does seem to be a fair amount of selfishness amongst stalkers - usually older guys who have had the stalking for years & don’t want to give it up, & I totally understand that as they’ll no doubt enjoy the opportunity to get out just as much as me or the next man. However, instead of working with the younger generation to bring them along & let them do the hard work whilst keeping access to the ground themselves, they seem to go out of their way to stop newcomers whatever. I was victim of this when I very first started out, after helping a local keeper I used to go beating for with his released pheasants one summer he asked if I wanted to go out & shoot a deer on 1 August - I did, I shot a fallow pricket. After that he took me out more & more to the point where he said I should apply for an FAC & said I could put him down as a referee & that ‘his lordship’ had agreed I could use the estate for my good reason. Roll forward to the beaters day shoot & there was this guy ‘Malcom’ we’ll call him, he was a retired copper from the next county & I’d never met him before but he was a friend of the keeper so not unusual him being there. At the end of the day as I was putting dog, etc. back in the car he came over & with no-one looking pinned me up against the car & told me in no uncertain words what he’d do if I ever came stalking there again! He wasn’t the only person the keeper had helping him out & after I’d mentioned this to the keeper he never went there again. That, however, was my introduction to stalking!

Then there are the farms where they don’t want change, they’ve had old Tom shooting the deer since the last century & it’d kill him off if someone else came along.

There’s also the farms where the older generation of shooters have now passed away & the youngsters either have no idea of management or worse still simply don’t want a shoot or stalking on the ground.

Finally, & apologies but it has to be said, there are the hobby stalkers who get a piece of ground & pop down as & when to take “one for the pot” but aren’t really interested in, or geared up for, taking larger numbers, either in one visit or over a period of time, to manage the populations. I have nothing against them enjoying heir hobby/sport but if they get a “permission” they should make sure they do their bit with it, whether that means taking more deer off it themselves if it needs to be done or perhaps sharing it with others so that between them they can cull reasonable numbers.

Just my experience in the first instance, observations of trends locally & thoughts latterly.

Malcolm sounds nice... What an idiot!

Interesting insights.

I don't think there's any blame to pass or comment on for us hobbyists. As you've pointed out, not all of us have access to all the gear and kit needed to process tens or hundreds of deer a year. Some people would rather not shoot that many and indeed would be happy with an odd freezer filler here and there. It's down to the landowner to decide what and when conservation is carried out in their land. The estate around here has plenty of deer but the owner has little to no interest in erradicating them - in fact they quite like seeing them. There's also no argument that one is blocking the ground for others to shoot over for the season above (along with many others).

There's no obligation on anybody, hobbyist or otherwise, to do their part and take out as many deer as they can - unless agreed with the landowner. Nor should they feel obliged to open up the land to others because they don't want to shoot 5x a week.

I appreciate people have their opinions and so they should, but another's perspective may be equally or more valid.

 

[nun_hunter]

This is nothing personal but there does seem to be a fair amount of selfishness amongst stalkers - usually older guys who have had the stalking for years & don’t want to give it up, & I totally understand that as they’ll no doubt enjoy the opportunity to get out just as much as me or the next man. However, instead of working with the younger generation to bring them along & let them do the hard work whilst keeping access to the ground themselves, they seem to go out of their way to stop newcomers whatever. I was victim of this when I very first started out, after helping a local keeper I used to go beating for with his released pheasants one summer he asked if I wanted to go out & shoot a deer on 1 August - I did, I shot a fallow pricket. After that he took me out more & more to the point where he said I should apply for an FAC & said I could put him down as a referee & that ‘his lordship’ had agreed I could use the estate for my good reason. Roll forward to the beaters day shoot & there was this guy ‘Malcom’ we’ll call him, he was a retired copper from the next county & I’d never met him before but he was a friend of the keeper so not unusual him being there. At the end of the day as I was putting dog, etc. back in the car he came over & with no-one looking pinned me up against the car & told me in no uncertain words what he’d do if I ever came stalking there again! He wasn’t the only person the keeper had helping him out & after I’d mentioned this to the keeper he never went there again. That, however, was my introduction to stalking!

Then there are the farms where they don’t want change, they’ve had old Tom shooting the deer since the last century & it’d kill him off if someone else came along.

There’s also the farms where the older generation of shooters have now passed away & the youngsters either have no idea of management or worse still simply don’t want a shoot or stalking on the ground.

Finally, & apologies but it has to be said, there are the hobby stalkers who get a piece of ground & pop down as & when to take “one for the pot” but aren’t really interested in, or geared up for, taking larger numbers, either in one visit or over a period of time, to manage the populations. I have nothing against them enjoying heir hobby/sport but if they get a “permission” they should make sure they do their bit with it, whether that means taking more deer off it themselves if it needs to be done or perhaps sharing it with others so that between them they can cull reasonable numbers.

Just my experience in the first instance, observations of trends locally & thoughts latterly.

Regarding the hobby stalker category (which I very much fit into) they play a part where the landowners don't want a huge reduction in deer nor do they want someone going stalking and shooting deer on their land 5 days a week. They want someone to come along once or twice a month, have a chat, talk about what they have seen while walking about, shoot a few deer and share some venison.

Unless we own our own piece of land we are at the mercy of those that do and have to do what they wish.

What is frustrating for those who want to shoot more deer is that there are landowners with stalkers not shooting as much as they want but are unwilling to either share stalking or replace a stalker who isn't doing what they wish with one that will.

 

[sikamalc]

Ok, if you can't keep it civil then you will be banned. Don't say you were not warned.