Interesting open letter concerning the lead shot/ammunition ban

[Woodenbeam]

How about freedom to choose as opposed to having something forced upon you by people who think they know best?
The lead ballacks is just a step in the wrong direction & BASC should have had the sense to kick it into touch by questioning the ‘scientific reports’.
But no, showed willing to extend the life of unethical large commercial shoots which have to do something to appear in a better light, bad shout.
In doing so opened the can of worms regarding old guns, small calibres, centrefire, everyday common folk etc etc

 

[BryanDC]

it takes but two minutes on google search to find what I posted re wads, another quick google.

Plastic litter from shotgun ammunition on Danish coastlines – Amounts and provenance

Plastic litter in the marine environment is a major global issue. Discarded plastic shotgun ammunition shells and discharged wads are an unwelcome add…

www.sciencedirect.com

Why do you think the U.K. voluntary transition included a move away from single use plastic wads to biodegradable?
because it is untenable to swap lead pollution for that of plastic and the orgs know that.

Then your 35m limit on the range you shoot at, and no mention of .410 or 28ga or historic firearms.

We do not all shoot 12gauge.

Interesting report from 7 years ago that I have seen before. It quite clearly shows a significant amount of plastic waste originating from shooting in the coastal waters. But does not mention 30 tonnes per year. What is also clear is that a lot of it is actually cartridge casings.
The main cause of this is hunters using semi-autos and not collecting their cartridge casings. Which to me is totally wrong.

This problem was highlighted by the Danish hunting federation who funded a competition to find a way of collecting the fired casings. It was won by a young guy that made a magnetic collector. I think it is now on the market as a device called "we caatch" (with double a).

There are also other devices to catch ejected cartridges so there really isn't any excuse now.
This report and other media reports also started the move towards bio wads, which a lot of people have changed over to.

As for the 35m. Personally I think that is fine. Lead doesn't have anything left after that type if range either. I think that deliberately presenting high pheasants and portraying them as sporting is a disgrace. Sporting for who?

The piece from Thorkild did actually mention older firearms. As for smaller calibres. There is ammunition available but I don't think they are well used here so it wouldn't be available everywhere

 

[BryanDC]

Any truth in this from 2022

Hi xxxxxxxxxx
The main issue regarding degrading time, fast or slow, is that the faster it degrade, the more difficult it is to work with in loading department, and it can also cause trouble when store incorrectly, we all know hunters keep cartridges in places not suited for storage

We have had incidents here in Denmark where cartridges loaded with water solube wads has caused barrels to exploded, therefore for instance xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx cartridges has been taking of the market, it also cause a lot of other issues, these are not a problem with our solution, our wad is not vulnerable to moist

I think if you have the time it would make sense to talk over zoom sometimes next week?

Best regards
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Denmark

Difficult to comment when there is little actual information in it. Where did it come from?

 

[tackb]

As for the 35m. Personally I think that is fine.

then why don't you personally stick to that limit and leave us with different limits alone to use whats best ?

 

[Spear Chucker]

Can we have a separate forum for people to moan about the lead ban Otherwise it’s going to be a long 3 years! That way we can reclaim SD for people who actually have a life?

You could always start a lead free supporters thread. You really don't have to take part in this. If the sweethearts who cannot support their fantasies with evidence to underpin their anti lead zealotry, hadn't hi-jacked the thread (which was the publishing of a relatively interesting and learned open letter) It would have ended a week ago after 1 page.

 

[BryanDC]

then why don't you personally stick to that limit and leave us with different limits alone to use whats best ?

I do and you are welcome to your opinions.

 

[Spear Chucker]

Here we go again
And they have the gall to pop at the common sense pro lead, anti legislation peasants for repeating themselves?
Of course the evidence is there for all to see………..the massive decline in corvids & raptors suffering painful deaths from toxic lead ingestion

To be fair, with the advent of the Online Communications Bill in the last week, it was always going to shake out a load of people who were normally "otherwise engaged"

 

[tackb]

I do and you are welcome to your opinions.

and my own limits ?

 

[BryanDC]

and my own limits ?

Of course.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Out of how many activities members? Because there ain't 30k posting on even a semi regular basis

There are over 440 comments on this thread - mostly by a handful of forum members - mostly the same ones that dominate any lead ammunition related thread with the same old misinformation, BASC bashing and personal abuse.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Conor, are you serious? Are you living in some lead free parallel dimension? Indeed, is it possible thst you might be suffering the effects of exposure to excessive levels of lead?
On what planet are the pro lead/anti ban lobby a minority? I can only assume you have been asleep for two years or that your dishonesty and neck know no limits. We have recent surveys where 85%of respondents do not favour a switch to non lead.
So far, having been shown clearly to be out of your depth on the facts and science, you have tried to divert attention from your humiliation by telling us we were bullies and lecturing us on manners when you were clearly beyond the pale and supporting an aggressor. Now you seem to have just resorted to promoting a line that is plainly dishonest. Are your superiors aware of what you are doing on this forum in the name of BASC? Have you any idea how damaging it is for the standing of BASC?
To be fair, even if they did, they either wouldn't understand it, wouldn't care or act.

You are free to deny that your views of BASC are in the minority but it won't change the direction of travel away from the use of lead ammunition by hunters in the UK, EU and worldwide. Given that you say you left BASC around 3 years ago (no reason given), I would suggest you sign up for the free weekly newsletter by email. Just add your email to the pop up box from the link below. That way you can keep up to date with the myriad activities and policy updates of interest.

Latest news

We deal extensively with national, regional and local media on a range of topics.

basc.org.uk

 

[Liveonce]

Difficult to comment when there is little actual information in it. Where did it come from?

You have PM.

 

[tackb]

There are over 440 comments on this thread - mostly by a handful of forum members - mostly the same ones that dominate any lead ammunition related thread with the same old misinformation, BASC bashing and personal abuse.

it's easy to dismiss it as basc bashing

whats harder is to be open enough and self aware enough to wonder why the members and ex members feel that way , to reflect on that honestly would impress me and i am sure others and would maybe go some way to building bridges ?

the shooting industry is shrinking in this country of that there is no doubt , you draw your members from that demographic and to dismiss there concerns or to be secretive about stuff like the minutes that have been referred to in this thread smacks of a 'we know best' so just shush attitude and that is absolutely guaranteed to get peoples backs up and lose you members you can ill afford to lose.

 

[Liveonce]

Interesting report from 7 years ago that I have seen before. It quite clearly shows a significant amount of plastic waste originating from shooting in the coastal waters. But does not mention 30 tonnes per year. What is also clear is that a lot of it is actually cartridge casings.
The main cause of this is hunters using semi-autos and not collecting their cartridge casings. Which to me is totally wrong.

This problem was highlighted by the Danish hunting federation who funded a competition to find a way of collecting the fired casings. It was won by a young guy that made a magnetic collector. I think it is now on the market as a device called "we caatch" (with double a).

There are also other devices to catch ejected cartridges so there really isn't any excuse now.
This report and other media reports also started the move towards bio wads, which a lot of people have changed over to.

As for the 35m. Personally I think that is fine. Lead doesn't have anything left after that type if range either. I think that deliberately presenting high pheasants and portraying them as sporting is a disgrace. Sporting for who?

The piece from Thorkild did actually mention older firearms. As for smaller calibres. There is ammunition available but I don't think they are well used here so it wouldn't be available everywhere

any help

 

[Liveonce]

now the 30 tons may be incorrect but that’s the problem with such estimates and science they hardly ever like to be proved wrong.

 

[BryanDC]

any help

View attachment 430923

This is the standard AI response that google supplies. I can also get the same in Danish.
I am in agreement that the use of plastic wads is far from ideal. But more and more people are switching to biowads and hopefully that will continue. I hope in future that they will become the norm and plastic wads will be a thing of the past.

 

[VSS]

There's nothing in the UK, from a rat to a red deer, that couldn't be shot with a .222 (birds included), which might turn out to be an awful lot of fun!

 

[Liveonce]

This is the standard AI response that google supplies. I can also get the same in Danish.
I am in agreement that the use of plastic wads is far from ideal. But more and more people are switching to biowads and hopefully that will continue. I hope in future that they will become the norm and plastic wads will be a thing of the past.

indeed, but not all biowads are created equal, and we as consumers should be provided with more information on the packaging to make an informed choice as to what to buy and where intended to be used.

 

[Liveonce]

@BryanDC what cartridges are mainly being used standard steel or high performance steel?

 

[BryanDC]

@BryanDC what cartridges are mainly being used standard steel or high performance steel?

I think that depends on the individual. At the moment I have some standard steel nr 7 24g with plastic wads for clay shooting and a high speed nr 3 32g with biowad for game. I don't notice any harsh kick from the high speeds I use and they shoot very well.
There are a lot of people using old guns here, both side by sides and over and under. I would guess that many are using a standard steel load in those. We have a requirement for a minimum muzzle speed of 400m/s for steel cartridges for hunting.
The new hunting season starts in september. I will try to remember to ask people what they are using. I know that quite a few have switched over to biowads and our own club clay shooting over a farmers field (before he sold it) was biowads only.