18 year old daughter showing interest - where/how to begin

[.30-06]

So, my now 18 year old daughter is beginning to show interest in deer stalking. She has accompanied me on vermin shoots since she could walk, so she has a grasp of firearms safety, and she is a pretty decent shot with an air rifle, FAC air and .22lr

She has just started a degree in wildlife conservation and for the last couple of months she has mentioned deer stalking a few times, enough so that I know it's of interest.

The old chap who I used to shoot deer for sadly passed last year, so I no longer have a deer permission. I am not DSC1/2 qualified, with no intention of becoming so. I arrange stalking as and when I have the time, and only ever for meat.

For vermin I have thermal and various night vision optics on FAC air, 22lr, and 5.56/223, and for deer I have my .270/Meopta combo.

What would be the best way to get some introductory training for my daughter, with a view of her gaining DSC1/2 in the future ?

Should I apply for a .243 slot for her, or is now an appropriate time for her own FAC application ?

I have agreements on various permissions, and I am sure I could have some of those agreements amended to include her, which would be more than sufficient for an FAC application.

As an aside she has already begun to look into ATV training, meat and game prep/handling, 4x4 training etc

Thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

 

[Feugh]

do you live close to somewhere with guided stalks where there’s a strong chance of success? My older daughter’s first deer was a red stag in northern Scotland, where I knew the head keeper. I had taken her out several times on targets so that she was competent to 250 yards and her first shot at live quarry was around that distance with a 25-06.
I didn’t take her on my ground because there was less chance of success and because often children will listen more to an expert than a parent, no matter their experience. I had taken her out and shot a roe when she was there, to see if it bothered her. When I saw that it didn’t I got the trip with her organised.
I’ll do something similar with my second daughter soon.

 

[Chris Richardson]

So, my now 18 year old daughter is beginning to show interest in deer stalking. She has accompanied me on vermin shoots since she could walk, so she has a grasp of firearms safety, and she is a pretty decent shot with an air rifle, FAC air and .22lr

She has just started a degree in wildlife conservation and for the last couple of months she has mentioned deer stalking a few times, enough so that I know it's of interest.

The old chap who I used to shoot deer for sadly passed last year, so I no longer have a deer permission. I am not DSC1/2 qualified, with no intention of becoming so. I arrange stalking as and when I have the time, and only ever for meat.

For vermin I have thermal and various night vision optics on FAC air, 22lr, and 5.56/223, and for deer I have my .270/Meopta combo.

What would be the best way to get some introductory training for my daughter, with a view of her gaining DSC1/2 in the future ?

Should I apply for a .243 slot for her, or is now an appropriate time for her own FAC application ?

I have agreements on various permissions, and I am sure I could have some of those agreements amended to include her, which would be more than sufficient for an FAC application.

As an aside she has already begun to look into ATV training, meat and game prep/handling, 4x4 training etc

Thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

If you’re based near Yorkshire or Lincolnshire I could help you both out

 

[tozzybum]

Contact Mouse on here ,she works for Bds and has been stalking since about aged 14 .
Very knowledgeable and as a forestry ranger apprentice shot and processed hundreds of deer .
Very friendly and helpful

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

So, my now 18 year old daughter is beginning to show interest in deer stalking. She has accompanied me on vermin shoots since she could walk, so she has a grasp of firearms safety, and she is a pretty decent shot with an air rifle, FAC air and .22lr

She has just started a degree in wildlife conservation and for the last couple of months she has mentioned deer stalking a few times, enough so that I know it's of interest.

The old chap who I used to shoot deer for sadly passed last year, so I no longer have a deer permission. I am not DSC1/2 qualified, with no intention of becoming so. I arrange stalking as and when I have the time, and only ever for meat.

For vermin I have thermal and various night vision optics on FAC air, 22lr, and 5.56/223, and for deer I have my .270/Meopta combo.

What would be the best way to get some introductory training for my daughter, with a view of her gaining DSC1/2 in the future ?

Should I apply for a .243 slot for her, or is now an appropriate time for her own FAC application ?

I have agreements on various permissions, and I am sure I could have some of those agreements amended to include her, which would be more than sufficient for an FAC application.

As an aside she has already begun to look into ATV training, meat and game prep/handling, 4x4 training etc

Thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

Is she a BASC member? If so, she should email deer@basc.org.uk for advice.

 

[25 Sharps]

So, my now 18 year old daughter is beginning to show interest in deer stalking. She has accompanied me on vermin shoots since she could walk, so she has a grasp of firearms safety, and she is a pretty decent shot with an air rifle, FAC air and .22lr

She has just started a degree in wildlife conservation and for the last couple of months she has mentioned deer stalking a few times, enough so that I know it's of interest.

The old chap who I used to shoot deer for sadly passed last year, so I no longer have a deer permission. I am not DSC1/2 qualified, with no intention of becoming so. I arrange stalking as and when I have the time, and only ever for meat.

For vermin I have thermal and various night vision optics on FAC air, 22lr, and 5.56/223, and for deer I have my .270/Meopta combo.

What would be the best way to get some introductory training for my daughter, with a view of her gaining DSC1/2 in the future ?

Should I apply for a .243 slot for her, or is now an appropriate time for her own FAC application ?

I have agreements on various permissions, and I am sure I could have some of those agreements amended to include her, which would be more than sufficient for an FAC application.

As an aside she has already begun to look into ATV training, meat and game prep/handling, 4x4 training etc

Thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

You can’t apply for a .243 slot for her on your certificate, you also can’t loan her a deer rifle if you don’t have a permission that includes written permission to loan a rifle.

If she has no deer permission of her own she will struggle for an FAC the only route is probably a paid stalk, or invitation from someone on here.

 

[Mouse]

I've had a read through this and if you want to pm me @.30-06 then I would be more than happy to have a chat and offer some advice

 

[VSS]

You can’t apply for a .243 slot for her on your certificate, you also can’t loan her a deer rifle if you don’t have a permission that includes written permission to loan a rifle.

If she has no deer permission of her own she will struggle for an FAC the only route is probably a paid stalk, or invitation from someone on here.

The OP most certainly can apply for a .243 slot, to be used as an "estate rifle", therefore enabling his daughter to shoot under his supervision. She's old enough to be able to take advantage of that clause.
However, the best course of action would be for her to apply for her own FAC. As we all know, paid stalks (as recommended by yourself) are sufficient justification for that.

 

[moeggesit]

Forces differ (make up the rules as they go along) but there is no reason she can’t apply for her own FAC and an invite/ paid booking should be sufficient good reason. As far as I know, as long as you have deer stalking condition on your FAC you can lend your rifle to someone for the same purpose (while you are present), but there are some fine print. Initially, while waiting for the grant, borrow a rifle. Girls don’t seem to worry about recoil too much as long as you don’t overdo it (no need for a .243). Mine seems get on really well with the 7x57.

 

[willie_gunn]

You can’t apply for a .243 slot for her on your certificate, you also can’t loan her a deer rifle if you don’t have a permission that includes written permission to loan a rifle.

If she has no deer permission of her own she will struggle for an FAC the only route is probably a paid stalk, or invitation from someone on here.

It may be the wording, but I read the post as the OP meaning that he intends to apply for a variation to have a .243 on his FAC, that his daughter would then use - presumably because it is a “beginner-friendly” calibre. I.e. not that she would be named on the ticket, nor that the good reason for a .243 would explicitly be so that his daughter can use it. Depending on the OP’s circumstances, and how often he takes out guests, having a .243 as an estate rifle may be perfectly justifiable.

She could then use it to shoot deer, presuming the OP has a permission where he is “the occupier, or the servant of the occupier”, i.e. he has the right to invite others onto the land for the purpose of hunting deer, or that he is authorised in writing to do so by whoever holds those rights. If we are using “permission” to mean the “lease”, then there’s no need for it to explicitly state that the OP can loan a rifle - this is implied in the “estate rifle” clause itself, presuming all relevant conditions are met.

The OP would have to accompany his daughter on each outing, and remain within her presence. If she wants to stalk unaccompanied then getting her own FAC is required.

This might be useful:

Borrowing rifles on private premises

Explaining the law around what you can and can't do when it comes to borrowing a rifle for use on private premises.

basc.org.uk

However this is complicated by the OP saying that, whilst he has permissions, none of these are deer permissions. A .243 as an estate rifle might still be possible if his daughter is just going to shoot vermin, but for specific experience on deer I’d think it may be better for his daughter to pursue the paid stalking route.

 

[Tim.243]

So, my now 18 year old daughter is beginning to show interest in deer stalking. She has accompanied me on vermin shoots since she could walk, so she has a grasp of firearms safety, and she is a pretty decent shot with an air rifle, FAC air and .22lr

She has just started a degree in wildlife conservation and for the last couple of months she has mentioned deer stalking a few times, enough so that I know it's of interest.

The old chap who I used to shoot deer for sadly passed last year, so I no longer have a deer permission. I am not DSC1/2 qualified, with no intention of becoming so. I arrange stalking as and when I have the time, and only ever for meat.

For vermin I have thermal and various night vision optics on FAC air, 22lr, and 5.56/223, and for deer I have my .270/Meopta combo.

What would be the best way to get some introductory training for my daughter, with a view of her gaining DSC1/2 in the future ?

Should I apply for a .243 slot for her, or is now an appropriate time for her own FAC application ?

I have agreements on various permissions, and I am sure I could have some of those agreements amended to include her, which would be more than sufficient for an FAC application.

As an aside she has already begun to look into ATV training, meat and game prep/handling, 4x4 training etc

Thoughts/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.

If you have foxes and can work the permission paperwork then start off with them as I shot more foxes than deer for quite a while and had my fac opened up via foxing (it had deer on it) but 90% was foxes and if you get the measure of them deer are a doddle.
That will get her shooting and a method to work off.

 

[25 Sharps]

The OP most certainly can apply for a .243 slot, to be used as an "estate rifle", therefore enabling his daughter to shoot under his supervision. She's old enough to be able to take advantage of that clause.
However, the best course of action would be for her to apply for her own FAC. As we all know, paid stalks (as recommended by yourself) are sufficient justification for that.

He can, but not to shoot deer as the OP stated that he has no deer permission, if he has no deer permission he can’t loan her a rifle to shoot deer.

 

[25 Sharps]

It may be the wording, but I read the post as the OP meaning that he intends to apply for a variation to have a .243 on his FAC, that his daughter would then use - presumably because it is a “beginner-friendly” calibre. I.e. not that she would be named on the ticket, nor that the good reason for a .243 would explicitly be so that his daughter can use it. Depending on the OP’s circumstances, and how often he takes out guests, having a .243 as an estate rifle may be perfectly justifiable.

She could then use it to shoot deer, presuming the OP has a permission where he is “the occupier, or the servant of the occupier”, i.e. he has the right to invite others onto the land for the purpose of hunting deer, or that he is authorised in writing to do so by whoever holds those rights. If we are using “permission” to mean the “lease”, then there’s no need for it to explicitly state that the OP can loan a rifle - this is implied in the “estate rifle” clause itself, presuming all relevant conditions are met.

The OP would have to accompany his daughter on each outing, and remain within her presence. If she wants to stalk unaccompanied then getting her own FAC is required.

This might be useful:

Borrowing rifles on private premises

Explaining the law around what you can and can't do when it comes to borrowing a rifle for use on private premises.

basc.org.uk

However this is complicated by the OP saying that, whilst he has permissions, none of these are deer permissions. A .243 as an estate rifle might still be possible if his daughter is just going to shoot vermin, but for specific experience on deer I’d think it may be better for his daughter to pursue the paid stalking route.

As above, the OP has stated he has no permission to shoot deer, so he can’t loan the rifle for shooting deer.

 

[25 Sharps]

Forces differ (make up the rules as they go along) but there is no reason she can’t apply for her own FAC and an invite/ paid booking should be sufficient good reason. As far as I know, as long as you have deer stalking condition on your FAC you can lend your rifle to someone for the same purpose (while you are present), but there are some fine print. Initially, while waiting for the grant, borrow a rifle. Girls don’t seem to worry about recoil too much as long as you don’t overdo it (no need for a .243). Mine seems get on really well with the 7x57.

As my post above, the OP has no permission for deer and if he did have permission it would need to state that he could loan a rifle for the estate rule to apply, if it is not in writing he cannot loan the rifle.

 

[VSS]

He can, but not to shoot deer as the OP stated that he has no deer permission, if he has no deer permission he can’t loan her a rifle to shoot deer.

As above, the OP has stated he has no permission to shoot deer, so he can’t loan the rifle for shooting deer.

As my post above, the OP has no permission for deer and if he did have permission it would need to state that he could loan a rifle for the estate rule to apply, if it is not in writing he cannot loan the rifle.

I think you're just looking for complications.
In reality, I don’t think there are any. There are sensible workarounds to most situations. (eg, see @Tim.243's post #11)

 

[25 Sharps]

I think you're just looking for complications.
In reality, I don’t think there are any. There are sensible workarounds to most situations.

I don’t think I am, he has asked specifically about getting her experience for deer, not for gaining experience with firearms on other quarry (which it sounds like she already has). He asked whether getting a .243 on his certificate will aid this, without a deer permission to make use of the .243 under the estate rule the answer is, no. He can’t loan her the rifle for a paid stalk with someone else.

She could apply for a .243 for fox if the OP gets her permission on his permissions but that could only be used for deer if it includes deer or AOLQ in the condition, which may not be added.

A couple of paid stalks under her belt and evidence of another 1 or 2 booked means she will get to experience stalking and have a basis for deer on an FAC application, hence the suggestion.

 

[25 Sharps]

PS, I can’t see Tim’s post as I have him on ignore…..

 

[VSS]

I don’t think I am, he has asked specifically about getting her experience for deer, not for gaining experience with firearms on other quarry (which it sounds like she already has). He asked whether getting a .243 on his certificate will aid this, without a deer permission to make use of the .243 under the estate rule the answer is, no. He can’t loan her the rifle for a paid stalk with someone else.

She could apply for a .243 for fox if the OP gets her permission on his permissions but that could only be used for deer if it includes deer or AOLQ in the condition, which may not be added.

A couple of paid stalks under her belt and evidence of another 1 or 2 booked means she will get to experience stalking and have a basis for deer on an FAC application, hence the suggestion.

Well I still think you're making it more complicated than needs be.

Fox & AOLQ for the estate rifle would enable her to get started, and take advantage of any deer permission that the OP might be able to secure.
Bookings for forthcoming paid stalks is sufficient supporting evidence for a FAC application.

And no-one's yet mentioned DSC1. That would also be a good starting point, and shows commitment. She should do that as soon as possible.

 

[willie_gunn]

As my post above, the OP has no permission for deer and if he did have permission it would need to state that he could loan a rifle for the estate rule to apply, if it is not in writing he cannot loan the rifle.

Do you have an example of a permission that states that the holder can loan a rifle?

I’ve never seen or heard of that requirement. I suppose any lease could have any clause like that added, but the estate rifle clause itself doesn’t require it.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

.....I am not DSC1/2 qualified, with no intention of becoming so....

Surely you should lead by example and get DSC1/2 yourself?

Regards

JCS