Modern cars trying to be too clever and multiple electrical problems!!!

A diagnostic tool with live data feeds will tell you what the problem is . It’s simply a case of interpreting the readings in regards to the system that’s showing a fault

Most modern tools do turn everyone into a vehicle electrician.

Gateway is relatively new and hopefully will be challenged in court but pre gateway all the information on how to interpret findings is available online.

Main dealer techs are certainly not undervalued and the reason that dedicated diagnostic repair companies are so popular is because large amounts of main dealer techs are too lazy or crooked to fix simple faults , preferring to diagnose massive issues ( dpf replacement ring any bells ) when it’s usually a sensor
So what do you do when an ECM is transmitting incorrect data to your live data feed? The VCI only tells you what the control modules interpretation of the electrical signals is, so live data cannot be taken as gospel in a certain instances. Real in depth diagnostics can't be done purely with a plug in computer regardless of how good it is. You need the skills and ability to interpret the data and work out a diagnostics plan. In your response you say that techs aren't undervalued, then go on to say that they can't fix simple faults. Having this viewpoint assures me that you personally undervalue techs, whether through previous bad experiences or ignorance of how things are actually done in a professional workshop.

In a lot of cases main dealer techs don't get the opportunity do do what they do best because management feels the need to step in for many reaaons. Money is the biggest motivator to main dealer management. They crunch the numbers and decide whether it's worthwhile pursuing a fault to effect a repair or write it off as a lost cause. All the customer sees at the end of it is a vehicle that still has a fault, and more often than not the failure to fix the fault is attributed to the 'inabilities' of the techs to fix it when in reality they have had their wings clipped for financial/time constraint reasons. Different story where warranties are concerned, but even then a lot of main dealers don't operate as they should. It's rarely the techs fault though.
 
A diag tool won’t help you if it throws a generic fault code ,I don’t think main dealer techs are lazy they have to follow the repair protocol in order to warranty any work done .
 
I served my time as a grease monkey on JLR vehicles,

I own and run the best selling car in the world 2024, dropped to number 2 in 2025. Will be keeping for 10 years hopefully.

The numbers don’t lie, reliability and usability is my number 1 priority (and you can fit plenty deer in the back)
................which is ?
 
This post is about vehicle electrical and electronics :
I think you'll find there called "Driver Aids", just incase the steering wheel operator forgets how they drive a car in a safe manner.

Regarding vehicle technician's ability or lack of it, depends on their back ground and training.
Working for a Japanese company, with UK HQ, until I retired recently. We used to get vehicles and products ( car's , bikes. quads, outboards) back that dealer's couldn't fix.
These products we're coming back from a "small" number of dealer's.
To sort out the problem we made these dealer's employ technician's that knew what they we're doing, and by pure coincidence the number of returns reduced by aound 80%.that came back through our workshop.

Don't blame the technician, blame the dealer management that employ them.
If you think you can plug in a laptop that will tell you what the fault is, then you really are clueless and very little knowledge about electronics and engine management systems.
 
So what do you do when an ECM is transmitting incorrect data to your live data feed? The VCI only tells you what the control modules interpretation of the electrical signals is, so live data cannot be taken as gospel in a certain instances. Real in depth diagnostics can't be done purely with a plug in computer regardless of how good it is. You need the skills and ability to interpret the data and work out a diagnostics plan. In your response you say that techs aren't undervalued, then go on to say that they can't fix simple faults. Having this viewpoint assures me that you personally undervalue techs, whether through previous bad experiences or ignorance of how things are actually done in a professional workshop.

In a lot of cases main dealer techs don't get the opportunity do do what they do best because management feels the need to step in for many reaaons. Money is the biggest motivator to main dealer management. They crunch the numbers and decide whether it's worthwhile pursuing a fault to effect a repair or write it off as a lost cause. All the customer sees at the end of it is a vehicle that still has a fault, and more often than not the failure to fix the fault is attributed to the 'inabilities' of the techs to fix it when in reality they have had their wings clipped for financial/time constraint reasons. Different story where warranties are concerned, but even then a lot of main dealers don't operate as they should. It's rarely the techs fault though.
Then there's that little detail that not all cars give full OBDII compliant codes (JLR, BMW, etc.). They give basic codes, but the detailed ones require a licensed diagnostic tool that can interpret the proprietary codes. The US is actually in the process of filing suit against BMW and JLR for that very thing.
 
I served my time as a grease monkey on JLR vehicles,

I own and run the best selling car in the world 2024, dropped to number 2 in 2025. Will be keeping for 10 years hopefully.

The numbers don’t lie, reliability and usability is my number 1 priority (and you can fit plenty deer in the back)
Please tell me it's a corolla and not a Tesla
 
So what do you do when an ECM is transmitting incorrect data to your live data feed? The VCI only tells you what the control modules interpretation of the electrical signals is, so live data cannot be taken as gospel in a certain instances. Real in depth diagnostics can't be done purely with a plug in computer regardless of how good it is. You need the skills and ability to interpret the data and work out a diagnostics plan. In your response you say that techs aren't undervalued, then go on to say that they can't fix simple faults. Having this viewpoint assures me that you personally undervalue techs, whether through previous bad experiences or ignorance of how things are actually done in a professional workshop.

In a lot of cases main dealer techs don't get the opportunity do do what they do best because management feels the need to step in for many reaaons. Money is the biggest motivator to main dealer management. They crunch the numbers and decide whether it's worthwhile pursuing a fault to effect a repair or write it off as a lost cause. All the customer sees at the end of it is a vehicle that still has a fault, and more often than not the failure to fix the fault is attributed to the 'inabilities' of the techs to fix it when in reality they have had their wings clipped for financial/time constraint reasons. Different story where warranties are concerned, but even then a lot of main dealers don't operate as they should. It's rarely the techs fault though.
I agree with the second half of your post but the first half just sounds like an excuse I’m afraid
Sorry if that sound insulting but to say that ecu’s throw incorrect data is so obtuse as to be a bit laughable
 
I agree with the second half of your post but the first half just sounds like an excuse I’m afraid
Sorry if that sound insulting but to say that ecu’s throw incorrect data is so obtuse as to be a bit laughable
You're entitled to your opinion of course and that's fair enough, but it does happen. Like I said control units can only tell you their interpretation of what they're being told by their inputs. Control units can become 'corrupted' so to speak (there's more to it than this, but that's a whole other story). Signal interference on their inputs and outputs can affect the values viewed on live data. Even the very software on your OBD tool can have an effect on the values that you view, and in some cases can be the reason for the corruption. Some aftermarket OBD tools interrogate modules harder than others, which can cause internal module failures that you may not even be aware of because you don't have the correct software and interface to properly interrogate the modules.

I'm going off topic here so that'll be all I'll say on that, but back on topic, modern cars are indeed too clever, but not clever enough to replace a real person. Take Tesla for example. Some of their models feature pretty advanced ADAS systems. One such example is the use of cameras and software to interpret traffic signals and lights. There are many documented examples of Teslas suddenly slamming on their brakes and subsequently causing accidents. Turns out they interpret the sun as an amber traffic light, and brake in anticipation of the red light coming. This could be in the middle of the motorway or on a dusty back road somewhere. A perfect example of a dangerous safety feature that's supposed to improve road safety.
 
Your the 6th or 7th person I heard of with more than usual electrical issues wwith an xc90
My local mechanic told one of the 6 or 7 that they have a rep with electronics
 
And here's another reason to think carefully and do some research before buying the latest "thing"...


D.
It’s called “Gateway” and it’s disgusting and crooked
It needs challenged in court to get it made illegal
Hyundai aren’t the only ones at it either

Basically it’s sell you a subscription to allow you access with a diagnostics machine
Absolutely criminal
 
Doing a job at an independent garage recently and apparently the latest BMW’s wont allow non-BMW garages to work on them. Must be internet linked to BMW to unlock electronic handbrake, reset service indicator, etc. Oh and BMW charge for this remote service. Won’t ever be buying one of them
 
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