BBC and deer - a refreshingly balanced piece…

[TringSaint]

It wouldn't be a balanced article if it didn’t also include those kind of suggestions that have been put forward from time to time, even if they are crackers.

It's not "blooming expensive" at point of sale.
You just try getting it to that point and you’ll quickly learn how much cost is involved in processing and retailing. All cost that need to be recouped in the price the customer pays.

My top priced cut is loin butterfly medallions at £42.50 per kg, and no customer has ever said they were too expensive. In fact, they're generally not even interested in the price. If it's what they want then they buy it regardless.

My observation was that for some groups reality never seems to dawn on them and they will keep suggesting daft ideas for controlling a large number of wild animals whose populations are, in some parts of the UK, growing out of all proportion and control.

The article was good in that people who clearly know their oats were also involved, ensuring that a vision of reality was presented rather than one full of fanciful theories and a viewpoint that stalkers are evil!

 

[TringSaint]

37500 deer stalking members on this forum alone, and deer populations keep rising.

According to the article we need to take c750k deer /year just to stand still. Based on the SD membership that equates to 20 / year do each an every member.

Some on here take hundreds whilst others might take 1 or 2, but I would imagine that the average for the SD membership is likely to be less than 20 / year, and that is based on a likely very conservative population estimation.

So, in all likelihood, some of us are not culling enough! (Any excuse to go out shooting is good in my books!!)

 

[Cyres]

Off beam but I think around me gardeners are on a v substantial hourly rate most of it in cash! They are also in v short supply. Fortunately I am a very good gardener so don't need one.
D

 

[Cyres]

More likely 5 a year. In my case just what local farmers or friends want or need.
D

 

[cjm1066]

If you want to develop a stragety and bring partners with you, all options need consideration. Hence wolves/contraceptives etc are part of the consideration, discounted quickly due to faults that are self evident to many.

Large preditors for instance, few will care if they eat a few sheep, but if it's unsafe to take Fido i to the woods!

 

[Donkey Basher]

I've pinched that and and enailed my MP although doubt there will be a response:

I hope you've had a good Christmas.

This is a surprisingly balanced article from the BBC on deer and conservation which you may find interesting and is relevant given my current previously mentioned issues waiting for a firearms certificate.

Why Britain has a deer problem

Regarding one of the suggestions - whilst I'd personally love to see wolves, lynx and bear throughout the UK again, releasing large predators which will, on a very frequent basis chase down prey and tear them apart, potentially in packs, seems ill fitting with Labour's stance on hunting with hounds (which 'hunt' less frequently than these wonderful apex predators and can at least be called off by people) so I presume your party will be against such reintroductions? The PETA suggestion is unworkable.

Did you also point out that dart guns require an FAC, the delay in granting of which was the reason you contacted them in the first place!

 

[Stevie/P]

37500 deer stalking members on this forum alone, and deer populations keep rising.

Lot of them just happy to shoot two or three a year stalking is fun but also bloody hard work especially with the lager species not enough full time stalkers to bring numbers down gaining access to stalking is another issue.

 

[maximus otter]

...the lager species...

maximus otter

 

[Cyres]

I thought in Scotland there were plans to break up the ownership of all the big estates. If so and they are owned by multiple individuals how are you going to be able to release theses so called top predators..? Is the Scottish government going to tell objectors that they have to accommodate wolves and alike..?
It's woke pipe dreams

D

 

[Donkey Basher]

37500 deer stalking members on this forum alone, and deer populations keep rising.

If each shot between 20 & 30 a year the population would be halved

 

[k760]

I live in an economically deprived area, and most of my customers are local people.
My last customer on Christmas eve was a gardener. He drives around in a little van, cutting people's lawns and clipping hedges. Hardly what you'd call a high earner. Yet he had over £200 worth of venison from me, no questions asked, and has bought similar quantities from me in the past.
The price per kg isn’t important to people. What is important to them is the price per portion. And that's where properly butchered and presented venison scores: It's nutrient dense, and there's no waste on the plate (bone or gristle) at the end of the meal. My customers know this, and keep coming back for more.

Yes, you're making my point for me here... Over £200 worth of venison for Joe blogs is not normal!

I'm not debating the merits of venison, I love the stuff, I'm suggesting that the disconnect between paying to shoot it, getting nothing to off load it to a dealer, to then sell it to some folk who are prepared to pay £200 for a few kilos, doesn't make sense to me - especially if we are to get it out to the masses and make use of the high numbers.

It's not too dissimilar to pheasant shooting. Some people are paying over £100+vat per bird and some estates are burying the birds that nobody wants, yet you still find it at the same price of a beef main in some restaurants.

How can we normalise game meat to make it more appealing and available to the masses?

 

[WW.]

Did you also point out that dart guns require an FAC, the delay in granting of which was the reason you contacted them in the first place!

I've not had a reply to my last three emails (admittedly one was once they were off for Christmas) although have mentioned dart guns before... If there's a miracle I will mention it in my reply.

 

[VSS]

Yes, you're making my point for me here... Over £200 worth of venison for Joe blogs is not normal!

I'm not debating the merits of venison, I love the stuff, I'm suggesting that the disconnect between paying to shoot it, getting nothing to off load it to a dealer, to then sell it to some folk who are prepared to pay £200 for a few kilos, doesn't make sense to me - especially if we are to get it out to the masses and make use of the high numbers.

It's not too dissimilar to pheasant shooting. Some people are paying over £100+vat per bird and some estates are burying the birds that nobody wants, yet you still find it at the same price of a beef main in some restaurants.

How can we normalise game meat to make it more appealing and available to the masses?

I think you must've misread my post.
I'm not selling venison to a few privileged high earners. I'm selling it to ordinary everyday folk in an area where incomes are typically very low.
And I'm struggling to keep up with the demand.

 

[Robby56]

I think you must've misread my post.
I'm not selling venison to a few privileged high earners. I'm selling it to ordinary everyday folk in an area where incomes are typically very low.
And I'm struggling to keep up with the demand.

If you can go into a butchers and pay £42.50 per kg for a joint of meat without even asking the price, then you can't be that under privileged or low paid.
I certainly don't know any ordinary, everyday folk who can afford to do that, and I live in an area where incomes are typically low.

 

[20-250]

The cynic in me thinks this is just another example of the government attempting to influence public opinion using the BBC to sow the seed of wolves, contraception or whatever other woke nonsense they feel like peddling.

 

[VSS]

If you can go into a butchers and pay £42.50 per kg for a joint of meat without even asking the price, then you can't be that under privileged or low paid.
I certainly don't know any ordinary, everyday folk who can afford to do that, and I live in area where incomes are typically low.

You're not reading my posts either.
Where did I say £42.50 per kg for a joint of meat?
I didn't!
I made it quite clear that £42.50 per kg was for the highest priced cut that I sell (ie, loin butterfly steaks). A roasting joint would typically be half that price per kg, which I would expect most people on here who know anything about venison to understand.
The more times I have to pick up my knife the more expensive it gets.

Perhaps if I tell you exactly what my local gardener customer got for his £200 that will give you a better context:

2x mini roasting joints
1x medium roasting joint
6x 500g packs of mince
6x 350g packs of diced stewing steak
5x packs of 4 haunch medallions
2x packs of 2 tenderloin fillets
2x packs of 4 burgers.
TOTAL £208

So a nice balance of high end cuts, mid priced cuts and low value cuts. A fair few kg of meat that'll stock his freezer for a while.
And the order was placed without any reference to prices.
(And around here a gardener is typically on £16 per hour, which most people would consider to be a pretty low income).

 

[Tim.243]

I would like to shoot more Fallow and limited to 4-5 with my chiller space, also none of my small bits of ground have woods so I rely on trail cam intel and a bit of know how.
From a numbers point people shooting with an outfitter for the freezer/wall (which is fine) but it will never make a dent in the numbers we have!

I tip my cap to those who do get stuck into decent numbers but the relatively small number of these people can only shoot/process so many with the large numbers not only Fallow but Sika and Reds which are growing each season. Where the article falls apart is when they start talking about Wolves/Bears but you have to throw a bone to the re-wilders lol

Why Britain has a deer problem

Deer numbers have rocketed over the last 40 years and particularly since the Covid-19 pandemic.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Poh]

It’s amusing to hear George Monbiot advocating the release of wolves and lynx to tear deer apart while alive. I wonder what his opinion is concerning fox hunting?



maximus otter

Especially as sheep are so much easier to catch.

 

[Robby56]

You're not reading my posts either.
Where did I say £42.50 per kg for a joint of meat?
I didn't!
I made it quite clear that £42.50 per kg was for the highest priced cut that I sell (ie, loin butterfly steaks). A roasting joint would typically be half that price per kg, which I would expect most people on here who know anything about venison to understand.
The more times I have to pick up my knife the more expensive it gets.

Perhaps if I tell you exactly what my local gardener customer got for his £200 that will give you a better context:

2x mini roasting joints
1x medium roasting joint
6x 500g packs of mince
6x 350g packs of diced stewing steak
5x packs of 4 haunch medallions
2x packs of 2 tenderloin fillets
2x packs of 4 burgers.
TOTAL £208

So a nice balance of high end cuts, mid priced cuts and low value cuts. A fair few kg of meat that'll stock his freezer for a while.
And the order was placed without any reference to prices.
(And around here a gardener is typically on £16 per hour, which most people would consider to be a pretty low income).

Well, it's still £42.50 per kg, whether it's a joint or not. £42.50 per kg is exactly what it says.
As regards the gentleman's order; we can only speculate on his earnings and personal circumstances.
Low paid under privileged, do not normally buy produce of this price.

 

[ABL]

I’d wager there’s a pretty wide spectrum of opinions amongst the readership of this forum, but perhaps the mainstream of stated opinion is more narrow. This isn’t always healthy. I’m not sure there’s much to dismiss in the BBC article at all. Apex predators - I’d be pretty confident we will see them here in the UK within a short period of time; lynx, under a decade, wolf perhaps a little more, bear harder to call. Do they eat people and their pets? No, as can be seen across all of Europe, where they roam without enclosures. Will they tackle the ‘deer problem’? Also no, not alone. But they will help massively. Not by predation alone, but by removing the safe hiding spaces that currently exist for species like fallow where landowners refuse to cull them. Predators will keep deer moving onto land that people on this forum shoot on - they would help us not hinder. Darting I’m more doubtful about tbh. The cost would be far more than that of culling. But again, if some organisations (membership based conservation bodies most likely) choose to use that approach on their land because their members don’t like killing, sobeit; if could be a part of the solution, if probably only a small one. At the risk of sounding totally sanctimonious, if we want people to understand our values and the true benefits of shooting as part of land management and rural income, then this sector needs to learn to better understand the viewpoints of others as well - and find ways of working with them. If we don’t then are in trouble as the popular numbers are stacked against us.