Where am I going wrong??
- Thread starter Trickyd66
- Start date
MTheaded but happy
Well-Known Member
You can measure your barrel using a cleaning rod , barrel length is measured from the breach/bolt face to the muzzle.
If you're getting 3000fps using the factory PPU ammo and your barrels 24" you've lost over 100fps , gospel according to the interweb .
It's difficult to tell from the photo , it looks as though the primer is backed out a little? If so it's an indication of low pressure . 1st thing to check is your weighing system . As others have pointed out .
How old is the rifle ? The barrel may be approaching the end of its life . The 222 is renowned for having great barrel life but even they can be shot out . Eventually!
If you're getting 3000fps using the factory PPU ammo and your barrels 24" you've lost over 100fps , gospel according to the interweb .
It's difficult to tell from the photo , it looks as though the primer is backed out a little? If so it's an indication of low pressure . 1st thing to check is your weighing system . As others have pointed out .
How old is the rifle ? The barrel may be approaching the end of its life . The 222 is renowned for having great barrel life but even they can be shot out . Eventually!
Cheers.. hopefully down to weighing!
Tika T3 so not that old in the grand scheme of things? Barrel and crown look fine to the naked eye and not going down the borescope route as it will probably depress me
.Im going to triple check the powder weights, but was getting close to nice groups at 23.4 so think about 24gn will be spot on (incidentally what the 1.6cc dipper that came with a set of dies seems to measure??)
Cheers
Td66
Full case to the brim of the neck is (on my possibly suspect scales) 30.6 grain
To shoulder is 24.6 grain.
Recon I could go to shoulder and not be compressed at 25 grain?
Was just getting better results at "max" load of 23.4gn, so think I will push it out a bit.
Cheers td66
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
In all honesty I use to reguly get best results over listed max with a wide range of powders and cartridges.
I don't think I'd go with 30gn but don't be frightened of compression if you still don't have the accuracy or a flattened primer at 24gn.
Cheers, it's all a learning curve for me.
The lower charges were all resulting in powder marks on the case suggesting under pressure? Will work the load up to find a sweet spot, then run out of the TAC and start again with N130
Where should I be measuring the case head diameter? At its widest point of the base? Thanks for your help, really appreciated...
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Just above the extractor groove.
It may not be necessary but some worry so this is a pro active way to check.
222 is rated lower than 223 pressure wise but is basically the same brass around the head. It's held lower because of some weaker actions originally chambered in it. In strong actions there is no real danger short of filling the case with the fastest powders for it.
Thanks,
Just checked and virgin brass 0.373, ppu factory after firing 0.373, my max load of 23.4gn 0.373.
A useful benchmark to watch for on my reloading journey
cheers again, TD66P.s its a tika t3 so hopefully a reasonably strong action ?
Last edited:
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
So if it goes .377 in one shot you may need to back off a touch but I doubt you will see that much of a jump.Thanks,
Just checked and virgin brass 0.373, ppu factory after firing 0.373, my max load of 23.4gn 0.373.
A useful benchmark to watch for on my reloading journey
Let us know please.
Has been queried... its an athlon ... have used it with my lr, wmr, hmr and all come up with expected results for the factory ammo.
Checked it with ppu factory 222 before and after the test shots and both came out about the 3000fps ish... would have to check my notes for the exact data (haven't got round to working out the phone transfer bit yet
)Thanks, Don't worry I will update, but will be a week or two before I can get to the range again
Cheers, TD66
Some barrels are faster , some are slower . Though there are a few more reasons that also come into this , Shooting in different ambient at different ,Apart from starting to reload
Made up my first 222rem rounds as follows (from lee 2nd Edition)
Case ppu (new)
Primer CCI 400 small rifle
Ramshot TAC
Hornady varmint. 224 (jacketed bullet?)
Oal 2.130.
Started at suggested at 21.5gn, 3 of each at 0.3gn intervals up to max load of 23.4gn.
Chrono'd all shots (checked chrono against factory ppu at 3000fps)
My velocities-(average of 3)
21.5gn 2450
22.4gn 2500
23.4gn 2680
Why might my velocity on book max be the book velocity for min load? (Expected velocity on max load being 3132 fps)
Groups at 23.4 gn were improving, can I increase charge by a bit? (No pressure signs)
Any ideas welcome please...
P.s. digital scales, but calibration checked before and after loading with a 14.6gn air pellet (not technical but works)
Thanks
TD66
Your rifle is likely fine, the chrono sounds like it is reading right when used with factory ammo so no reason it would do otherwise with reloads. Your scales are measuring a 50grain bullet consistently or certainly consistency enough that you can be confident that your charge weights are good enough to realise higher speeds.
How are you sizing the brass? Is there any chance that you are somehow getting very very low neck tension. As in seating bullets is only getting like half a thou or less of neck tension. That would likely result in much lower pressure and therefore reduced velocity. You can measure the internal diameter of the neck after sizing and then compare that to the shank of the bullet. Could possibly be slightly smaller bullet for some random reason which would also cause less neck tension.
It just seems weird. Yes some barrels are faster/slower than others and some have slacker/tighter chambers/bores but not to the point of seeing 400fps speed differences. With 23gns of TAC you should be north of 3000fps or at least in that ballpark with a 50gn bullet.
How are you sizing the brass? Is there any chance that you are somehow getting very very low neck tension. As in seating bullets is only getting like half a thou or less of neck tension. That would likely result in much lower pressure and therefore reduced velocity. You can measure the internal diameter of the neck after sizing and then compare that to the shank of the bullet. Could possibly be slightly smaller bullet for some random reason which would also cause less neck tension.
It just seems weird. Yes some barrels are faster/slower than others and some have slacker/tighter chambers/bores but not to the point of seeing 400fps speed differences. With 23gns of TAC you should be north of 3000fps or at least in that ballpark with a 50gn bullet.
Thanks. Brass was brand new sealed ppu so didn't resize... should I have?
Slightly internall and external champherd for belt and braces.
Just seated, not crimped in any way, but don't believe that would make a huge difference?
Good residence (I think) when seating bullets.
As I say, using the TAC as a "teaching aid" as I picked it up locally, and will move onto more "conventional " loads with N120/130 when I can afford/ becomes available
It is good practice but i wouldn't say it is guaranteed to cause an issue but I have not used PPU brass before so I have no idea how consistent it is out the box. General consensus is that the more expensive brass is generally more consistent and a better/higher quality. They are not all made equal. PPU has decent feedback on longevity though but is maybe considered a little rough around the edges whilst still shooting fine. There is certainly worse brass out there but it is also not in the ballpark of Lapua or other higher spec makers.Thanks. Brass was brand new sealed ppu so didn't resize... should I have?
Slightly internall and external champherd for belt and braces.
Just seated, not crimped in any way, but don't believe that would make a huge difference?
Good residence (I think) when seating bullets.
As I say, using the TAC as a "teaching aid" as I picked it up locally, and will move onto more "conventional " loads with N120/130 when I can afford/ becomes available
Maybe next time you have the loading gear out, measure the internal diameter with the opposite ends of your calipers of a couple of the new cases and then also measure the shank of a couple of bullets (the bit that represents the calibre of the bullet, so the bearing surface that is in contact with the internal neck when its seated. You want at least 0.001" of neck tension, possibly even as much as 0.002". So the bullet shank should be 0.001" wider than the internal diameter of the neck. The tighter the fitment is when seating a bullet, the higher the force needed to overcome the fit and therefore more pressure. Conversely, the more loose the fit, the less force needed and lower pressures realised. Pressure drives velocity
You don't need to crimp .222 cartridges if they are sized correctly. Crimping is fine for very very heavy recoiling cartridges that could see bullets in cartridges that are in the magazine moving under inertia of shots being fired, also for small brass like Hornet cartridges and maybe as a method to overcome poor brass prep but for many metallic cartridge reloads, assuming brass prep is done properly, crimping offers no benefit.
Thanks... appreciated
