New NE Deer Night Shooting Licence England/Wales (CL55)

[BLUEROLL]

I expect there are few members of this forum who have passed the badger night culling test and culled at night for years. Should this qualification and experience be recognised?
D

You can apply to DEFRA via the NFU for documented evidence of passing the badger cull shooting test and successful operation.

 

[homer]

There seems to be an undercurrent of collaboration between NE or whoever theh asked for advice. I spoke to PDS today about the practical shooting test which for them does not exist yet. I have no problem with competency testing but can only assume that DSC 2 makes you automatically able to shoot in the dark but DSC 1 does not. If hou have a badger badge you are ok but an experienced fox shooter possibly not. If have already been night shooting deer you must be safe. I will do the course when I find one!

A prime chance to make a load of cash by making up a coarse and convince everyone they need it!

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

A prime chance to make a load of cash by making up a coarse and convince everyone they need it!

Yep and a willing army of people to sign up for it too

Bloody hilarious

90% of members on here would them selves if they went out and rolled 1 let alone 6 lowland reds in the dark

What I would do to be a cock bush chicken up at roost watching

 

[homer]

Yep and a willing army of people to sign up for it too

Bloody hilarious

90% of members on here would them selves if they went out and rolled 1 let alone 6 lowland reds in the dark

What I would do to be a cock bush chicken up at roost watching

Yes, takes seconds to put them on the ground and hours of work afterwards. Dragging beasts in excess of 100kg is no easy task, even for fit youngsters.
Its certainly a different kettle of fish compared to roe/fallow.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Yes, takes seconds to put them on the ground and hours of work afterwards. Dragging beasts in excess of 100kg is no easy task, even for fit youngsters.
Its certainly a different kettle of fish compared to roe/fallow.

Ain’t that a fact!

It’s a ball ache in the day with good kit let alone after hours.

 

[Confidis]

It's easy to go off on rants on forums but honestly I've read the whole thing and it's a joke for normal people.



- Need a night certificate and DS1 (foxes etc fine don't worry)

- 640 high end thermal only but 6x40 glass scope and a torch is fine

- Have to inform the police before you go out (and neighbours possibly)

- Have to inform natural England after you go out (even if you blank).

- Only can do it if every other day avenue exhausted

- natural England can inspect you

Yep I cannot imagine any other way.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

My mate doesn’t read or write so well and doesn’t have dsc1 or dsc2. What he does have is years and years and hours and hours 6 days a week over vast acreage and experience of fox and rabbit shooting in the dark with lamps nv and thermal scopes. He has an open ticket for deer. He can butcher a fallow completely vac packed in 30mins yet doesn’t have the paperwork for a night licence but someone fresh off the bds pds and Basc conveyor belt does. Make that make sense

Get your mate to take the tests. They'll aid with whatever is needed to get your friend through the test, as part of their requirements for access arrangements. They'll read the questions and write for him.

I think his mate will take some convincing to part with north of £500 to take the courses that will probably teach him how to suck eggs anyway!

 

[25 Sharps]

Has NDS just been unleashed from a holiday or a ban or something?

My experience of night shooting is that shot placement is not an issue - the NV is more difficult for angle of quarter but you have more time. The issue is not the shooting of the deer but, imho, the safety of the backstop.

As for welfare, licences are intended for places where the density is high and, imho, yes, shooting it is actually best for its welfare.

Why are there not more issues with all the foxes in terms of backstop that are shot at night? Or all the badgers that were shot on the cull?

If the shooter is a safe shot then they are a safe shot, day or night.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Why are there not more issues with all the foxes in terms of backstop that are shot at night? Or all the badgers that were shot on the cull?

If the shooter is a safe shot then they are a safe shot, day or night.

I don’t disagree with you, but and here is the but, there’s 101 new stalkers with big rifles or modern night vision and thermal ETC and I don’t have a bloody clue what they’re doing!

I could quite easily go out and roll a load of reds over all I would have to do is jump on the quad drive 500 or 600 yards in One Direction and I’m pretty certain at midnight I could roll over half a dozen right quick but do I want the ball? I can do that absolutely ****ing not!

I’ve already told my land owner I won’t do it, and if he got someone else to do it, hello so lose a considerable sum of money per year because I do all his clients for him so we’ll see where that goes. I’m not overly fussed

 

[25 Sharps]

I don’t disagree with you, but and here is the but, there’s 101 new stalkers with big rifles or modern night vision and thermal ETC and I don’t have a bloody clue what they’re doing!

I could quite easily go out and roll a load of reds over all I would have to do is jump on the quad drive 500 or 600 yards in One Direction and I’m pretty certain at midnight I could roll over half a dozen right quick but do I want the ball? I can do that absolutely ****ing not!

That’s the whole point of the qualifications and/or experience being required for the license though, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Unlike foxing which is solely down to the FEO deciding if someone is experienced enough and suitable to be throwing bullets around at night. Plenty of people use deer calibres for foxing too.

As for you not wanting to do it, that’s fine, but there are plenty who will and plenty who already do, so the fact you personally wouldn’t want to doesn’t really come into it.

 

[nf-fuse]

That’s the whole point of the qualifications and/or experience being required for the license though, which in my opinion is a good thing.

Unlike foxing which is solely down to the FEO deciding if someone is experienced enough and suitable to be throwing bullets around at night. Plenty of people use deer calibres for foxing too.

As for you not wanting to do it, that’s fine, but there are plenty who will and plenty who already do, so the fact you personally wouldn’t want to doesn’t really come into it.

The feo isn't really deciding anything about people's experience for night foxing though. I mean they do try, but strictly speaking it's on 'good reason' not experience or qualifications.

 

[Confidis]

Day or night as long as you have a good backstop it's fine . However.This is why my rule of thumb is smallest bullet possible in most situations. This with 50g would be worrying with 180g
Terrifying

 

[Siggy]

My mate doesn’t read or write so well and doesn’t have dsc1 or dsc2. What he does have is years and years and hours and hours 6 days a week over vast acreage and experience of fox and rabbit shooting in the dark with lamps nv and thermal scopes. He has an open ticket for deer. He can butcher a fallow completely vac packed in 30mins yet doesn’t have the paperwork for a night licence but someone fresh off the bds pds and Basc conveyor belt does. Make that make sense

not being able to read or write shouldn't be a barrier to getting DSC1/2 - any assessment will make necessary and appropriate accommodations

 

[25 Sharps]

The feo isn't really deciding anything about people's experience for night foxing though. I mean they do try, but strictly speaking it's on 'good reason' not experience or qualifications.

Not quite, if you read the guidance it also says something along the lines of ‘experience comensurate with the type of firearm applied for’. You may have good reason but be turned down because you have never shot anything larger than a cap gun, and if they did so they’d be following the guidance.

 

[Jh1986]

Looking at all the comments and questions there is obviously a huge amount of confusion. I did the Deer Night Shooting qualification some three weeks ago (and miracles happen....a Pass!) , offered to me by one of my Landowners, and within a week of doing the course I learned about the new online registration process to N.E. in Cat. 1, 2, 3 and 4. Which lead a few of my contacts to comment that doing the course had been 'a waste of time and money'.

I disagree, for two reasons:

1. Registering for the course made me do several 'training' sessions in the week before the course. This wasn't time wasted as I realised I had to improve on my Marksmanship, in particular the 20 Yards Dispatch shot caused me some issues. Having my rifle zero checked and shooting at a target with my Red LED Lamp was very useful practice. It was good to meet some others on the course and it was good to be tested on theory and practical skills under exam conditions. I arrived at the Course venue feeling I was reasonably well prepared.
2. I believe that some Landowners may well go one step further in their minimum requirements for allowing their Stalkers night shooting. So it may well be 'Legal' if the the Stalker is just Registered with N.E. under Cat. 1-4; but that doesn't mean that some Landowners won't set higher standards, such as the requirement to have passed the Deer Night Shooting course successfully.

My feedback on the course is:

• All those wo took part in the course I attended were experienced deer managers with DSC2, contracts/licenses to manage deer on large estates, and in most cases managing several other Stalkers in their team.
• The course is about The Law, Safety, and deer welfare.
• The course discourages headshots and promotes h/l shots.
• The issue of Game Dealers not wanting to accept h/l shot carcasses was not addressed.
• The deer ID Pictures (night, thermal or NV, still pictures) were of low quality, were very hard, and quite a few struggled on this and some Failed. I simply had to guess 3/10 pictures and only by pure luck managed to reach the pass mark of 8/10.
• The theory multiple choice questions were really quite basic.
• The Practical safety test was about common sense but still failed by one candidate.
• The Marksman Test was failed by half the candidates on the first attempt, including me, but we all passed it on the second attempt. Those using borrowed Thermal, borrowed NV and clip-on devices struggled most. The targets were hard to spot by those using thermal scopes.

Just got back from the course myself. Christ, those deer ID are difficult. 2 of them are pure guesswork, which leaves zero margin for error on the others.

I think of the six people attending, we probably had three or 4 different species/sex for one of them.

The rest of the questions were basically, as you said. Shooting test, I just did NV. Must admit to thinking I'd cocked up somewhere, when I got to 10m and could only see 3 holes in my 4" target. Thankfully closer inspection revealed one of the holes to be rather ragged.

 

[RPA 6MM BR]

Several around here think they’ve had this license for years anyway
Can’t wait to hear the moaning start that venison is only getting 50p/kg due to the game dealer being flooded with deer due to the amount getting shot at night.
Can’t be arsed I manage to shoot my fair share during daylight hours.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Several around here think they’ve had this license for years anyway
Can’t wait to hear the moaning start that venison is only getting 50p/kg due to the game dealer being flooded with deer due to the amount getting shot at night.
Can’t be arsed I manage to shoot my fair share during daylight hours.

Finally someone speaking sense!

 

[Nickb]

What about heavily populated areas that have the public out and about at all times of the day , surely its an asset being able to shoot them at night as much better for public safety.

 

[Ratcatcher]

A few things come to mind here, moving a deer carcass in daylight is sometimes difficult, as can be driving to it, at night even the most gentle retrieve is likely to be more hazardous? When I was culling feral pigeon in town centres you can't believe how deadly pavements can become once the dew got on them, rain was not the same? Those of us who've had to provide a risk assessment to landowners better start to rewrite almost every part of it! Finally I've read many comments on this thread regarding the poor price for venison being exacerbated by this new law, ie supply and demand, and a couple of people talking of burying carcasses; let me assure you all that if the general public get one whiff of " beautiful Bambi" being treated in this way every person on here would be tarred with the same brush, think of the problems this has had for the game shooting fraternity and multiply it, by a lot!!

 

[wytonpjs]

A few things come to mind here, moving a deer carcass in daylight is sometimes difficult, as can be driving to it, at night even the most gentle retrieve is likely to be more hazardous? When I was culling feral pigeon in town centres you can't believe how deadly pavements can become once the dew got on them, rain was not the same? Those of us who've had to provide a risk assessment to landowners better start to rewrite almost every part of it! Finally I've read many comments on this thread regarding the poor price for venison being exacerbated by this new law, ie supply and demand, and a couple of people talking of burying carcasses; let me assure you all that if the general public get one whiff of " beautiful Bambi" being treated in this way every person on here would be tarred with the same brush, think of the problems this has had for the game shooting fraternity and multiply it, by a lot!!

Moving the carcass, I'll have a head torch and other illumination on then so not that different IMHO having had years of getting off the hill after LL.

However, an interesting issue I hadn't thought much about until actually doing this in anger was the danger from small tree branches. All of the areas I stalk have trees of some form and whilst I know the routes through them well enough to do it easily at night, its this year's new tree growth on principally my cut-throughs that have caught me out more than once! I don't wear glasses to stalk and don't want the faff of taking them off and on, but last Wednesday night I had 2 whips into my right eye in fairly rapid succession that were to say the least painful! This year's bramble "danglers" are equally as bad. All easy to avoid in daylight but not when creeping about in the dark.

Brought back vivid memories of when I had to rush a very well-known stalker/training provider to A&E in Salisbury after he had a branch whip into his good eye blinding him whilst we trying to find a runner in the dark that a colleague had shot at LL from a high seat. It was only at that point that I discovered he only had sight in that eye, having lost vision in the other years ago! (His most able No2's BMH thankfully made short work of finding the sika).