.303 reloading with S and B brass / bullet weight for deer

[Zetter]

I had a nice message from TVP that my variation has been granted to move my Ruger number 1 .303 from a pure target condition to a deer condition.

So now the reloading work up starts.

I have about 300 S and B once fired cases from target work at the moment. How have people found them for reloading? I dont mind if I only get a couple of firings out them and them bin them.
Is it worth starting with these or do I invest in some PPU brass to kick off with?


Also any thoughts on bullet weigh to kick off with? She shoots really well with S and B 174 grain but for some reason hates PPU 174 grain???

I was thinking either sierra 180grain or 150 grain pro hunters over some vit 140 I have. Obviously the benefit of 150 grain its it less of a brick so the MV is a bit less pedestrian but I did try some 150g grain PPU before and the results were a bit poor though I sort of gave up at S and B 174s for target were pretty cheep at the time and available.

Cheers in advance for any thoughts.

 

[Mike1979]

I would use the S&B cases as they are free and even if you only get 2 uses out of them that will still get you 600 rounds.

Might be worth considering a non toxic round as 3 years will soon come round ...good luck and hope you find a decent load nice and quickly

 

[Zetter]

Cheers I will be working up a non toxic later but as I have the powder and brass plus we are into buck season I thought I would knock up a standard lead load for now and then work on non toxic over this year at my leisure ready for when the change comes.
I just have read a lot of nasty comment about S and B brass but I have a load kicking about at the moment.

 

[Mike1979]

Cheers I will be working up a non toxic later but as I have the powder and brass plus we are into buck season I thought I would knock up a standard lead load for now and then work on non toxic over this year at my leisure ready for when the change comes.
I just have read a lot of nasty comment about S and B brass but I have a load kicking about at the moment.

Good call. Maybe try a few rounds and if you dont like the brass get some new ..nothing ventured and all that

 

[enfieldspares]

Hello. As my SD name suggests I have once upon a time owned the odd Lee Enfield. So I'll write as if nobody knows anything and that way I'll omit nothing.

1) The 303 cartridge headsapces on the front of the rim just as does a .22LR cartridge or a revolver cartridge such as the .357 Magnum or .45 Long Colt. It does not headspace on the shoulder...but see later...!

2) Most rifles that used the .303 were military rifles either the old .303 Martini-Enfield through the Lee Metford to the various marks of Lee Enfield. Even supposedly the Ross. Or the civilian Farquharson or Gibbs. These had to be able to chamber ammunition made here there and anywhere and do so if the rifle's chamber were fouled.

3) In WWI the manufacturing tolerances for the .303 Mk VII cartridge were loosened so some WWI cartridges can have their shoulder slightly further forward yet be accepted or the case diameter slightly greater. It is this, as well as the oft quoted French mud, that caused the Ross to be a failure.

4) Therefore given 1), 2) and 3) you will see if you re-size fired cases to dimensions that are smaller than your possible larger diameter chamber or chamber with longer dimensions expansion AND STRETCHING of the case.

So what is the answer that I adopted?

A) Ignore the rim and re-size the case...if you are only reloading for the one single rifle...so that it becomes like a .30/06 a cartridge that headspaces on the shoulder. That way the case is not continually being sized "short" to then expand "long". The cause of why the .303 reload is notorious for stretching just above the web and the base of the case and failing there. Case head separation.

THE OP'S RUGER WILL ALSO IN THEORY HEADSPACE ON THE RIM AS WITH THE MARTINI ENFIELD OR FARQUHARSON.

B) But do we need then to throw away out standard full length sizing die and invest in a neck sizing die? Heck no! We use a technique that I call "partial neck sizing". Others call it something else that I can't recall. But the method is the same. So now search out a wax candle from where the fuse box is in your house or the birthday cake candle drawer.

C) Take say four or five cases fired with a either factory ammunition or with full normal safe reload charge in your rifle. Not Ted's rifle or Jim down the club's rifle or new or once fired cases bought off the internet. You MUST use cases either factory or reloads that you have fired in your rifle.

D) Take your selected case and lubricate as normal as you would when sizing. Now take a lit candle and smoke (lay down a very thin layer of soot) onto the case shoulder and case neck. This will be a soft matt black. Do not touch this layer of soot.

E) Put this case in the shellholder as if you were going to resize it as normal. But do NOT have the resizing die screwed into your press.

F) Operate the press as you would do normally to raise the case up into what (if it were in place) would have been your full length resizing die.

G) Take you full length resizing die and remove the neck expander plug, so that you now have ONLY the bare resizing die and its lockring in your hand. Screw the lockring all the way to the top of the die as far as it will go.

NOW WE SET UP OUR FULL LENGTH RESIZING DIE TO WHAT I CALL PARTIAL NECK SIZE. AS BELOW.

H) Screw that full length resizing die into the press so that as you screw it in it eventually can go no futher because the shoulder in the die has just contacted the shoulder on your case. Now operate the press to lower the case out of the die. Observe the soooted shoulder and sooted case neck.

YOU SHOULD SEE THAT THE SOOT HAS BEEN PUSHED DOWN THE CASE NECK EITHER ALL THE WAY DOWN TO WHERE THE CASE NECK MEETS THE SHOULDER OR PART OF THE WAY DOWN. YOU MAY SEE THAT THE SOOT ON THE SHOULDER IS NOW PRESSED FLAT AS IS NO LONGER MATT BUT "SHINY".

If you don't then adjust the full length resizing die down until you achieve that point where all the soot on the case mouth has has been pushed down off it. Keep operating the sooted case (or better a second and so on sooted case) until this is achieved. Now operate the press to lower your test out of the resizing die.

Screw the lockring down until it touches the top of the press. The carefully turn the die back out of the press keeping the lockrjng in the same position in the die (I usually used to back the die out with the lockring in that same position you just reached but a one eighth to one quarter turn).

Now gently screw the lockring down to touch the top of the press and "lock" it into position on the die but not yet so tight that you cannot then remove the whole die and its "locked" lockring.

NOW THE TEST.

Take one of the sooted cases that you made earlier. Screw your now set up full length resizing die into your press as you would normally. The locked lockring being what controls how far down you can do that. Run that sooted case up into the die and lower it out. If the set up is correct for this "partial neck sizing" you should see all the soot pressed down off the case neck and the soot on the shoulder pressed flat.

Then re-assemble your neck expander/decapping rod into the die to decap and neck expand as normal. You have now set up your die so that your cases are reloaded so as to in effect headspace off the shoulder and not the rim. So there is no longer this repeated shortening and then lengthening of the case at its base.

To test load a dummy round with bullet but no powder or primer and see if it chambers and chambers with the bolt on the rifle being able to turn all the way down with no resistance as it would do as normal with new factory ammunition or ammunition you had full length resized in the "old way". Or in the OP's case with his Ruger that the block rises all the way and does so easily.

Your cases will now be being "partial neck sized" as I call it but others may have a more correct name for the process. These cases will work in YOUR rifle. If you've more than one rifle set the die so that the cases work in both at the expense of the cases then stretching slighly in the rifle with the longest chamber.

 

[Zetter]

Cheers for the comprehensive write up Enfieldspares that was really useful and very much appreciated.

Best Regards Neil

 

[norsk]

What powder do you have access to?

All powders suitable for the 308 with the same weight bullet will work in a 303.

Win 748,Norma 203-B,202,Vit N140,N150 etc There is plenty of load data online.

If you wish to get the longest life from your Brass,either anneal it or cut down a cheap full length sizing die so it only sizes the neck. Or do both.

Any softpoint in the 150/180 grain range will be fine.

My favourite load is 39 grn Norma 202,Sierra 180 grain flat base spire point,what ever case I have on hand and what ever primer is cheapest at the time.

 

[suburban bushwacker]

Hello. As my SD name suggests I have once upon a time owned the odd Lee Enfield. So I'll write as if nobody knows anything and that way I'll omit nothing.

1) The 303 cartridge headsapces on the front of the rim just as does a .22LR cartridge or a revolver cartridge such as the .357 Magnum or .45 Long Colt. It does not headspace on the shoulder...but see later...!

2) Most rifles that used the .303 were military rifles either the old .303 Martini-Enfield through the Lee Metford to the various marks of Lee Enfield. Even supposedly the Ross. Or the civilian Farquharson or Gibbs. These had to be able to chamber ammunition made here there and anywhere and do so if the rifle's chamber were fouled.

3) In WWI the manufacturing tolerances for the .303 Mk VII cartridge were loosened so some WWI cartridges can have their shoulder slightly further forward yet be accepted or the case diameter slightly greater. It is this, as well as the oft quoted French mud, that caused the Ross to be a failure.

4) Therefore given 1), 2) and 3) you will see if you re-size fired cases to dimensions that are smaller than your possible larger diameter chamber or chamber with longer dimensions expansion AND STRETCHING of the case.

So what is the answer that I adopted?

A) Ignore the rim and re-size the case...if you are only reloading for the one single rifle...so that it becomes like a .30/06 a cartridge that headspaces on the shoulder. That way the case is not continually being sized "short" to then expand "long". The cause of why the .303 reload is notorious for stretching just above the web and the base of the case and failing there. Case head separation.

THE OP'S RUGER WILL ALSO IN THEORY HEADSPACE ON THE RIM AS WITH THE MARTINI ENFIELD OR FARQUHARSON.

B) But do we need then to throw away out standard full length sizing die and invest in a neck sizing die? Heck no! We use a technique that I call "partial neck sizing". Others call it something else that I can't recall. But the method is the same. So now search out a wax candle from where the fuse box is in your house or the birthday cake candle drawer.

C) Take say four or five cases fired with a either factory ammunition or with full normal safe reload charge in your rifle. Not Ted's rifle or Jim down the club's rifle or new or once fired cases bought off the internet. You MUST use cases either factory or reloads that you have fired in your rifle.

D) Take your selected case and lubricate as normal as you would when sizing. Now take a lit candle and smoke (lay down a very thin layer of soot) onto the case shoulder and case neck. This will be a soft matt black. Do not touch this layer of soot.

E) Put this case in the shellholder as if you were going to resize it as normal. But do NOT have the resizing die screwed into your press.

F) Operate the press as you would do normally to raise the case up into what (if it were in place) would have been your full length resizing die.

G) Take you full length resizing die and remove the neck expander plug, so that you now have ONLY the bare resizing die and its lockring in your hand. Screw the lockring all the way to the top of the die as far as it will go.

NOW WE SET UP OUR FULL LENGTH RESIZING DIE TO WHAT I CALL PARTIAL NECK SIZE. AS BELOW.

H) Screw that full length resizing die into the press so that as you screw it in it eventually can go no futher because the shoulder in the die has just contacted the shoulder on your case. Now operate the press to lower the case out of the die. Observe the soooted shoulder and sooted case neck.

YOU SHOULD SEE THAT THE SOOT HAS BEEN PUSHED DOWN THE CASE NECK EITHER ALL THE WAY DOWN TO WHERE THE CASE NECK MEETS THE SHOULDER OR PART OF THE WAY DOWN. YOU MAY SEE THAT THE SOOT ON THE SHOULDER IS NOW PRESSED FLAT AS IS NO LONGER MATT BUT "SHINY".

If you don't then adjust the full length resizing die down until you achieve that point where all the soot on the case mouth has has been pushed down off it. Keep operating the sooted case (or better a second and so on sooted case) until this is achieved. Now operate the press to lower your test out of the resizing die.

Screw the lockring down until it touches the top of the press. The carefully turn the die back out of the press keeping the lockrjng in the same position in the die (I usually used to back the die out with the lockring in that same position you just reached but a one eighth to one quarter turn).

Now gently screw the lockring down to touch the top of the press and "lock" it into position on the die but not yet so tight that you cannot then remove the whole die and its "locked" lockring.

NOW THE TEST.

Take one of the sooted cases that you made earlier. Screw your now set up full length resizing die into your press as you would normally. The locked lockring being what controls how far down you can do that. Run that sooted case up into the die and lower it out. If the set up is correct for this "partial neck sizing" you should see all the soot pressed down off the case neck and the soot on the shoulder pressed flat.

Then re-assemble your neck expander/decapping rod into the die to decap and neck expand as normal. You have now set up your die so that your cases are reloaded so as to in effect headspace off the shoulder and not the rim. So there is no longer this repeated shortening and then lengthening of the case at its base.

To test load a dummy round with bullet but no powder or primer and see if it chambers and chambers with the bolt on the rifle being able to turn all the way down with no resistance as it would do as normal with new factory ammunition or ammunition you had full length resized in the "old way". Or in the OP's case with his Ruger that the block rises all the way and does so easily.

Your cases will now be being "partial neck sized" as I call it but others may have a more correct name for the process. These cases will work in YOUR rifle. If you've more than one rifle set the die so that the cases work in both at the expense of the cases then stretching slighly in the rifle with the longest chamber.

That was really useful - would you consider doing a video?

 

[enfieldspares]

That was really useful - would you consider doing a video?

Thank you for very kind words. I think there are already such on the internet?

This gives an idea of how this partial neck sizing doesn't set the shoulder back. I however do make sure that the parallel neck is fully sized right back to where it touches the shoulder and then, just a turn to put the shoulder slighly back. This man doesn't use the soot methof but I find that the soot method does help actually see what you have done. Hope it helps.

 

[suburban bushwacker]

Thank you for very kind words. I think there are already such on the internet?

This gives an idea of how this partial neck sizing doesn't set the shoulder back. I however do make sure that the parallel neck is fully sized right back to where it touches the shoulder and then, just a turn to put the shoulder slighly back. This man doesn't use the soot methof but I find that the soot method does help actually see what you have done. Hope it helps.

Thanks man this is a big help. I've been successful with making 6.5cm but 303 is another layer of complexity . I have a 'regulated by Alex Martin" I have high hopes for.

 

[Zetter]

What powder do you have access to?

All powders suitable for the 308 with the same weight bullet will work in a 303.

Win 748,Norma 203-B,202,Vit N140,N150 etc There is plenty of load data online.

If you wish to get the longest life from your Brass,either anneal it or cut down a cheap full length sizing die so it only sizes the neck. Or do both.

Any softpoint in the 150/180 grain range will be fine.

My favourite load is 39 grn Norma 202,Sierra 180 grain flat base spire point,what ever case I have on hand and what ever primer is cheapest at the time.

Currently I have a full tub of vit 140 to try And magtec primers

 

[norsk]

Currently I have a full tub of vit 140 to try And magtec primers

Perfect.

You have the advantage of a newly cut chamber and barrel too. I see Vit only publishes data for 180 grn Sierra's with N140 ,but try the 150's if thats what you are keen on using.

 

[moeggesit]

Modern S&B brass (the last 30 years or so) is not very good but in a modern tight chamber like yours there should not have been much initial stretch and you should be getting 3-4 reloads from them. Check for a bright ring starting to show 20mm from the base of the case, that’s the case separating and you should throw them away before they separate. On military 303’s S&B typically fail on the first reload or second at best. Enfieldspares advice will give much longer life than full length sizing, or you can use a collet neck sizer.

 

[enfieldspares]

Check for a bright ring starting to show 20mm from the base of the case, that’s the case separating and you should throw them away before they separate.

The old Winchester commercial 180 grain soft point ammunition was notorious for this if full length sized and then shot in a military No4 with a long cut chamber. I had a near half box full all separate at the head in a No4 two groove. But did I need the expense of one of the BREN clearing tools? No! A simple phosphor bronze removed any of the front of the case that didn't just simply shake out.