Defra proposed bird species review/changes

[Blade929]

Not sure if this has been posted, had a search but couldn't find anything with this link. Here it is for those that may be interested in responding. If it's already been posted would admin please remove this.

British bird quarry species review

The government is reviewing quarry species and seasons in England, Wales and Scotland and there is limited time to have your say.

basc.org.uk

 

[enfieldspares]

Yes. There is a thread here on SD. But that's not to say your post isn't redundant as others may not have seen the earlier thread.

DEFRA CONSULTATION ON FURTHER QUARRY RESTRICTIONS

 

[Blade929]

Yes. There is a thread here on SD. But that's not to say your post isn't redundant as others may not have seen the earlier thread.

DEFRA CONSULTATION ON FURTHER QUARRY RESTRICTIONS

I found some threads and hoped this link would be useful while containing wording for response to aid those that may wish to respond. Fingers crossed it helps some that may have missed this.

 

[JonR]

Good find. I have to say that I never knew the Coot was considered legal quarry, but then I'm more of a rifle shot than anything else.

Perhaps managing the demographics of quarry species needs to be far more of a fluid affair, along the lines of quotas for commercial fish stocks. Small pauses on a two to three year planning cycle would help balance numbers, but it's important to ensure that quarry can just as easily and quickly be put back on the quarry list (without the usual hippies and anti-gun folks getting a say) as taken off. I have some experience of how it works in Canada, and from my (perhaps naive) perspective, it seems to work when provinces have a largely devolved responsibility in maintaining game species stocks.

 

[enfieldspares]

Good find. I have to say that I never knew the Coot was considered legal quarry, but then I'm more of a rifle shot than anything else.

I used to shoot them on my pond as they are aggressive and keep ducks from establising nests. The devil they are to pluck so best skinned. But there's not much meat on them. But, yes, I have eaten the odd one. I the end as they were so much "faff" with little reward I just left them alone and accepted that I'd not have any duck nesting on the water.

 

[Tim.243]

I used to shoot them on my pond as they are aggressive and keep ducks from establising nests. The devil they are to pluck so best skinned. But there's not much meat on them. But, yes, I have eaten the odd one. I the end as they were so much "faff" with little reward I just left them alone and accepted that I'd not have any duck nesting on the water.

Moorhens and duck eggs lifted a good few out their nests with the big desert spoon taped onto a rod tip as a nipper, Dad holding on to my trousers so not to fall in Horse mushrooms picked from the field on the way back. Mum cooking a wonderful breakfast.

 

[jall55]

I used to shoot them on my pond as they are aggressive and keep ducks from establising nests. The devil they are to pluck so best skinned. But there's not much meat on them. But, yes, I have eaten the odd one. I the end as they were so much "faff" with little reward I just left them alone and accepted that I'd not have any duck nesting on the water.

Thats sad really that you are resigned to no duck nesting - try some duck tubes ?

TBH i have heard of issues but never found it a major problem and we have dozens upon dozens of ducks nesting on our ponds despite coots - could it be another issue ?

 

[enfieldspares]

Thats sad really that you are resigned to no duck nesting - try some duck tubes ?

TBH i have heard of issues but never found it a major problem and we have dozens upon dozens of ducks nesting on our ponds despite coots - could it be another issue ?

The pond and the house were sold back in about 2002 or so. There used to be the inevitable Canada geese nesting andonce swans aas there was an island in the middle of the pond about twelve feet by eighteen feet in size with some trees on it too. I used to get a regular flight of duck coming in off Groby Pool at night so in once sense wasn't worried about not having resident duck. There were always enough flighting in to have two or three guns shoot about once every ten days with two or six birds total between us if wanted...and could hit them. If we got six we stopped and picked up with the boat or a dog and went to the lodge for a drink and then home.

 

[Mr. Gain]

I think the issue with quarry lists is the assumption that hunting makes a difference to population levels. As we have no official system of bag recording, officialdom has no idea what the impact is, so they take the stance, "there must be some impact, so let's stop it", then feel they have done something tangible, whilst other more substantial factors remains unaddressed, and populations continue to decline, or not (because the population may just be overwintering elsewhere). The fact that most of these are waterfowl species is particularly telling, since wildfowlers are - correct me if I'm wrong - both the smallest minority in UK hunting, and the group with the longest track record of sustainable harvesting.
The whole thing stinks of ignorance, prejudice and dogooderry.

 

[Smellydog]

I use to clear a large set of pools of coot, every bloody coot in the country turned up there so it seemed. Made a difference to the balance and yes more ducklings survived.
A few coot were fine but not scores of them. Just needed some balance.

 

[Apthorpe]

Good find. I have to say that I never knew the Coot was considered legal quarry, but then I'm more of a rifle shot than anything else.

Perhaps managing the demographics of quarry species needs to be far more of a fluid affair, along the lines of quotas for commercial fish stocks.

You mean that they should be disastrously mismanaged according to political agendas?

Small pauses on a two to three year planning cycle would help balance numbers, but it's important to ensure that quarry can just as easily and quickly be put back on the quarry list (without the usual hippies and anti-gun folks getting a say) as taken off. I have some experience of how it works in Canada, and from my (perhaps naive) perspective, it seems to work when provinces have a largely devolved responsibility in maintaining game species stocks.

Sadly, this country doesn't work like that any longer.

 

[Basil H]

We have been hearing for years about considering populations at flyway level, about "adaptive harvest management" and so on. Our migratory waterfowl come from all across the north - Greenland, Iceland, Svalbard, Novaya Zemlaya and the river valleys such as the Yenesei and Ob. Yet the reality is incredibly parochial. If the WEBS counts of say Pintail on your local estuary are down then the reaction of Natural England is simply to reduce the already meagre ration on the SSSI consent, so the wildfowling club members suffer. Meanwhile a flight pond just over the sea wall can shoot large and unrecorded numbers indefinitely. Their final argument is of course to invoke that elusive precautionary principle. If you lived your life by that principle you would never get out of bed.

A ban on the sale of migratory species - ducks, geese and waders, including Woodcock - would make sense, and also a ban (hard to enforce I know) on attracting these species by feeding. These are the provisions in the U.S.A. and you can even in some circumstances be locked up for "baiting". Any thoughts ?

 

[Apthorpe]

We have been hearing for years about considering populations at flyway level, about "adaptive harvest management" and so on. Our migratory waterfowl come from all across the north - Greenland, Iceland, Svalbard, Novaya Zemlaya and the river valleys such as the Yenesei and Ob. Yet the reality is incredibly parochial. If the WEBS counts of say Pintail on your local estuary are down then the reaction of Natural England is simply to reduce the already meagre ration on the SSSI consent, so the wildfowling club members suffer. Meanwhile a flight pond just over the sea wall can shoot large and unrecorded numbers indefinitely. Their final argument is of course to invoke that elusive precautionary principle. If you lived your life by that principle you would never get out of bed.

A ban on the sale of migratory species - ducks, geese and waders, including Woodcock - would make sense, and also a ban (hard to enforce I know) on attracting these species by feeding. These are the provisions in the U.S.A. and you can even in some circumstances be locked up for "baiting". Any thoughts ?

Good sense. I have some disquiet about shooting of migratory species as a commercial undertaking....whether selling the meat or selling days' shooting for them ...e.g. woodcock on a commercial basis.
It's also regrettable to see some people apparently shooting more than they will eat.

 

[mudman]

We have been hearing for years about considering populations at flyway level, about "adaptive harvest management" and so on. Our migratory waterfowl come from all across the north - Greenland, Iceland, Svalbard, Novaya Zemlaya and the river valleys such as the Yenesei and Ob. Yet the reality is incredibly parochial. If the WEBS counts of say Pintail on your local estuary are down then the reaction of Natural England is simply to reduce the already meagre ration on the SSSI consent, so the wildfowling club members suffer. Meanwhile a flight pond just over the sea wall can shoot large and unrecorded numbers indefinitely. Their final argument is of course to invoke that elusive precautionary principle. If you lived your life by that principle you would never get out of bed.

A ban on the sale of migratory species - ducks, geese and waders, including Woodcock - would make sense, and also a ban (hard to enforce I know) on attracting these species by feeding. These are the provisions in the U.S.A. and you can even in some circumstances be locked up for "baiting". Any thoughts ?

A ban on artificial feeding would be of more benefit for our wildfowl than all the other measures put together.

 

[Freeforester]

I used to shoot them on my pond as they are aggressive and keep ducks from establising nests. The devil they are to pluck so best skinned. But there's not much meat on them. But, yes, I have eaten the odd one. I the end as they were so much "faff" with little reward I just left them alone and accepted that I'd not have any duck nesting on the water.

Try putting up a couple of duck tubes?

 

[jall55]

A ban on artificial feeding would be of more benefit for our wildfowl than all the other measures put together.

Plenty of people feed them but dont exploit them
I feed some of our ponds daily - we must have circa 100 ducklings knocking about already
I think we shot circa 30 duck the whole of last season

 

[Basil H]

Plenty of people feed them and DO exploit them - there's the rub.

 

[Freeforester]

Yeah, but who doesn’t like seeing fluffy ducklings outwith the shooting season?

 

[Smellydog]

Early ducklings are snaffled up usually. Herons , mink and others, crows for one.

 

[jall55]

Early ducklings are snaffled up usually. Herons , mink and others, crows for one.

TBH i think - in my experience on our little spot - that usually there is just no food for the first brood or two - I have some now that are 3/4 grown as we feed meal worms for them