Carrying magazines - best practice?

[PEA]

The whole "loaded" side of things is nonsense in the respect that its an offence as per below in C if you have the ammunition with you.

Frankly for me if the ammunition is separate from the firearm then it cant be considered "loaded" and thats the important bit. If the magazine was charged and in the rifle (albeit a round not in the chamber) then that is a definite no no.

FIREARMS ACT 1968 s19​

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.]

So in english what does that mean

 

[Mike1979]

So in english what does that mean

As I was told by BASC a while ago - rifle in car with bolt and a charged magazine - criminal offence (basically if you stopped and someone stole the rifle they can fire it). Rifle in slip and ammunition elsewhere then no offence - as long as you have "lawful authority" - legally held firearm and going somewhere to shoot.

If you cant have a rifle and ammunition together then its impossible as you cant go shooting.

 

[Trickyd66]

I think you are missing the point. It is sensible to have a filled magazine on you person in a pocket or whatever. But is it legal?

I don't see how it can be illegal. The magazine is not a firearm in its own right and subject to no licensing restrictions.
For all purposes it is a spring loaded ammunition case.

 

[PEA]

I don't see how it can be illegal. The magazine is not a firearm in its own right and subject to no licensing restrictions.
For all purposes it is a spring loaded ammunition case.

Agreed. Just not in the rife with a bolt until on private land

 

[Trickyd66]

As I was told by BASC a while ago - rifle in car with bolt and a charged magazine - criminal offence (basically if you stopped and someone stole the rifle they can fire it). Rifle in slip and ammunition elsewhere then no offence - as long as you have "lawful authority" - legally held firearm and going somewhere to shoot.

If you cant have a rifle and ammunition together then its impossible as you cant go shooting.

Not many rifles you can't load without a magazine?

 

[Mike1979]

Not many rifles you can't load without a magazine?

Plenty that you can - floorplate rifles don't have a mag. None you can load without the ammo though

 

[muddy42]

Legally there is a difference between a LOADED shotgun and a s1 firearm where with that, the s1, you have ammunition WHETHER LOADED OR NOT says the law. As SHAKEY JAKE notes with regard to s1 the law makes no distinction between being loaded or not loaded. Note that for the Firearms Act 1968 s19 that a private car used on a public road or elsewhere where the public have access IS a public place. However "daft" that idea may seem that is the law.

However I will make this point. If in the extremely unlikely event that you car catches fire do you think the firefighters would prefer that you had exited the car with your cartridges or that your cartridges were still in the car (be that in the rifle or in a box or a belt pouch) or were in your pocket and not in the car? And ditto if "took short" I'd prefer that my firearm had no ammuntion with them when I am away from the car.

So to answer the OP I consider that best practice is that the ammunition is kept separate from the firearm such that if I need to quit the vehicle (be that after emergency or for a "comfort break" that there is no suitable ammunition with it in the now unattended vehicle. Notwithstanding s19 of the Firearms Act we also have to consider our wider responsibility to others of what if the rifle (in whatever circumstance) was taken from the now unattanded vehicle?

FIREARMS ACT 1968 s19​

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.]

doesnt it depend on the interpretation of the words "together with" ? Noting that when the legislation was drafted more rifles would have a floorplate than a magazine. Is it :

1. 'together with' meaning ammo in the rifle (chambered or under the bolt)
2. 'together with' meaning not in the rifle but nearby and accessible to someone that has access to the rifle (as in in the same car, unsupervised)
3. 'together with' meaning ammo locked in the glove compartment or in your pocket when you are carrying the rifle (not accessible)

 

[Donkey Basher]

“A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place”

The lawful authority is your permission to shoot on a piece of ground using that firearm & ammunition plus you FAC authorising the use of that firearm & ammunition for the intended purpose on that ground.

The reasonable excuse is that you are travelling from your home (or wherever the approved storage for the firearm & ammunition is) to the ground on which you are authorised to use the firearm & ammunition where you intend to use it for the authorised purpose.

Personally I take the ammunition in a plastic 10 round strip (ex Federal factory ammo I think from memory) which is always full, either of loaded rounds or loaded rounds & a couple of fired cases. This is kept in the front pocket of my stalking jacket. Once on the ground as part of my ‘dressing up’ routine I put five rounds in the magazine & place it in a pocket in the jacket before the plastic strip goes back where it came from. Once I leave the vehicle I put the mag in the rifle, load a round in the chamber, apply safe & shoulder rifle so I am ready to go - many is the time that a deer has presented almost within sight of the vehicle & would have been missed if not ready to simply put the rifle on the sticks & slip the safety off. Crossing roads, fences, ditches, climbing highseat etc. rifle is unloaded & mag put in pocket until obstacle crossed & then rifle reloaded. Ditto, rifle remains loaded until I am back at the vehicle unless it is already past the legal allowable time at night - again, I have shot deer within sight of the vehicle at the end of a stalk.

 

[timbrayford]

When going out stalking, I carry my ammo in an elasticated cartridge wallet separate from the magazine, though both items are in the same Haversack, Respirator, S10.

The only concerns I can see are:

1. Legal. The law states:

19 A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place...​

[F5(a) a loaded shot gun,

(b) an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

(c) ...any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.]

Firearms Act 1968

An Act to consolidate the Firearms Acts 1937 and 1965, the Air Guns and Shot Guns, etc. , Act 1962, Part V of the Criminal Justice Act 1967 and certain enactments amending the Firearms Act 1937.

www.legislation.gov.uk

2. The longevity of the magazine follower spring. With modern materials, and considering the times involved, I don't think that this is an issue worth considering.

I don't see a problem with either approach. Some might say that your method - mag & ammo completely separate from the rifle and in your immediate possession - is better from a public safety viewpoint. I find that having everything together makes life easier and brain farts less likely.

maximus otter

19 is satisfied by a stalking trip , as is your knife, just make sure that you have your fac and details of your permission with you.

 

[timbrayford]

As I was told by BASC a while ago - rifle in car with bolt and a charged magazine - criminal offence (basically if you stopped and someone stole the rifle they can fire it). Rifle in slip and ammunition elsewhere then no offence - as long as you have "lawful authority" - legally held firearm and going somewhere to shoot.

If you cant have a rifle and ammunition together then its impossible as you cant go shooting.

I'd take anything that BASC says with the proverbial pinch of salt, and a large one at that.

 

[Dalua]

As the law (as quoted numerous times here) clearly doesn't differentiate between a loaded S1 firearm and an unloaded one in your possession along with ammunition, then from a law perspective it doesn't appear matter whether the magazine is loaded or not, whether the loaded magazine is in the rifle or not, or even whether or not there's one up the spout - as long as you've got lawful authority or reasonable excuse for possessing the firearm and ammunition.
Hence, my consideration of which condition my magazine and rifle are in when I'm driving about between fields, crossing a road from one bit of ground to another etc is based on using good sense to maintenance safety.

If you left a rifle with its bolt and a loaded mag unattended in your car, I think you'd be in breach of the statutory conditions on your FAC.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Watching YouTube videos i see people load their magazine from a box or ammo wallet before they set out on a stalk.
I tend to load mine before leaving home (stalking is within 15 miles) and just carry in my pocket to slot into the rifle when I arrive.
What do you do? What is consider best practice?

Mine lives in my pocket it’s where I need it to be, as soon as I’m on the ground which for me is walking out of the gate Mag in one up the spout away we go.

 

[CookM]

“A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place”

The lawful authority is your permission to shoot on a piece of ground using that firearm & ammunition plus you FAC authorising the use of that firearm & ammunition for the intended purpose on that ground.

The reasonable excuse is that you are travelling from your home (or wherever the approved storage for the firearm & ammunition is) to the ground on which you are authorised to use the firearm & ammunition where you intend to use it for the authorised purpose.

Personally I take the ammunition in a plastic 10 round strip (ex Federal factory ammo I think from memory) which is always full, either of loaded rounds or loaded rounds & a couple of fired cases. This is kept in the front pocket of my stalking jacket. Once on the ground as part of my ‘dressing up’ routine I put five rounds in the magazine & place it in a pocket in the jacket before the plastic strip goes back where it came from. Once I leave the vehicle I put the mag in the rifle, load a round in the chamber, apply safe & shoulder rifle so I am ready to go - many is the time that a deer has presented almost within sight of the vehicle & would have been missed if not ready to simply put the rifle on the sticks & slip the safety off. Crossing roads, fences, ditches, climbing highseat etc. rifle is unloaded & mag put in pocket until obstacle crossed & then rifle reloaded. Ditto, rifle remains loaded until I am back at the vehicle unless it is already past the legal allowable time at night - again, I have shot deer within sight of the vehicle at the end of a stalk.

Same here,get ready on permission on entering field,Federal or Sako 5 rnd holder.
All spares in bum bag,begin.

 

[timbrayford]

As the law (as quoted numerous times here) clearly doesn't differentiate between a loaded S1 firearm and an unloaded one in your possession along with ammunition, then from a law perspective it doesn't appear matter whether the magazine is loaded or not, whether the loaded magazine is in the rifle or not, or even whether or not there's one up the spout - as long as you've got lawful authority or reasonable excuse for possessing the firearm and ammunition.
Hence, my consideration of which condition my magazine and rifle are in when I'm driving about between fields, crossing a road from one bit of ground to another etc is based on using good sense to maintenance safety.

If you left a rifle with its bolt and a loaded mag unattended in your car, I think you'd be in breach of the statutory conditions on your FAC.

Additional security provisions such as a security cord might mitigate a temporary unattended firearm, e.g. driving break, putting the bolt in your pocket would be a wise precaution, together with hiding the gun from view and locking the vehicle

 

[cjm1066]

My old BSA has an integral magazine, that's only loaded when stalking.

The Sako detachable magazine is loaded for the duration of a stalking trip, kept on my belt or in the rifle when stalking.

 

[Jelen]

"A firearm is deemed to be loaded if ammunition is in either the chamber, or the magazine from where it is capable of being fed into the chamber".
(Parkes & Thornley. Deer: Law & Liabilities. Page 135, paragraph 2).

So there you have it.

Found the above post on a thread from 2024.
I read the above to mean that rounds in a magazine that is not fitted to the rifle is legal, assuming all other FAC conditions are met.

 

[slider]

If you left a rifle with its bolt and a loaded mag unattended in your car, I think you'd be in breach of the statutory conditions on your FAC.

Absolutely, when I have to stop while travelling (even popping in to pay for fuel) my bolt and ammo come with me.

 

[enfieldspares]

doesnt it depend on the interpretation of the words "together with" ? Noting that when the legislation was drafted more rifles would have a floorplate than a magazine. Is it :

1. 'together with' meaning ammo in the rifle (chambered or under the bolt)
2. 'together with' meaning not in the rifle but nearby and accessible to someone that has access to the rifle (as in in the same car, unsupervised)
3. 'together with' meaning ammo locked in the glove compartment or in your pocket when you are carrying the rifle (not accessible)

If you are in the car that, as far as I understand, that satisfies the proof of being "together with" regardless of where the ammunition is in the car, as elsewise there would be a defence to carrying an offensive weapon in a public place by you merely locking it in the boot of the car whilst yourself still being able to unlock that boot when the car has stopped.

 

[finnbear270]

Surely “Loaded” means “In Battery”?

 

[Druid]

Nothing wrong with your rounds being in the magazine in your pocket as long as not on the rifle whilst traveling or otherwise in a public place traveling to and from your stalking.
I really don’t know where this idea that ammo in a mag in a pocket is not allowed but ammo in a box, wallet or loose is.
It’s yet another example of how paranoid shooters have become about the legal mess that is our firearms law.