DSC2

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I think many of us rue the day we essentially lost the ability to approach things that way.

The degree of paper pushing and regulation in absolutely everything now is off the charts and has made absolutely everything for the worse.

The way society has also changed such that there is so much a sense of 'entitlement' in much of the coming generations also even makes it unpalatable to offer for absolutely nothing.
 
tjm160 said:
I think many of us rue the day we essentially lost the ability to approach things that way.

The degree of paper pushing and regulation in absolutely everything now is off the charts and has made absolutely everything for the worse.

The way society has also changed such that there is so much a sense of 'entitlement' in much of the coming generations also even makes it unpalatable to offer for absolutely nothing.
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You are 100% cock on
 
tjm160 said:
I have a fraction of the experience of the pair of you. However, I'm just shy of 40-culls and so do have sufficient experience to at least make some difference to new stalkers and after being asked, have taken two on; one, a younger man, whom I insisted he completed DSC1 before putting him on his first deer. He still accompanied me on my stalks to gain experience but waiting until he had passed DSC1 took the pressure off us both enormously. The second chap is a year older than me and given his life experience, the timing of his DSC1 course availability and present opportunities meant it made more sense to just put him on his first deer sooner than later. However, the time it continues to take for both of us in me explaining the most rudimentary elements of simple knowledge make it far far more preferable to have insisted on him completing DSC1 first also.
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you couldve just taught him in the field nothing beats hands on learning ? as for the paper pushing yes i agree its ridiculous these days but its not helped by the deerstalking group absolutely clamouring for courses and lining the pockets of orgs
 
Experience is very different from knowledge. You can't teach experience, but you can teach knowledge and the best, most efficient and cost effective way to impart knowledge is in the appropriate environment with the appropriate tools.
 
tjm160 said:
Experience is very different from knowledge. You can't teach experience, but you can teach knowledge and the best, most efficient and cost effective way to impart knowledge is in the appropriate environment with the appropriate tools.
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yes but as i said you couldve very easily taught him in the field ..........as for being cost effective if youre not charging the lad for your time then surely that wouldve been much cheaper than a course ?? ive taken a hell of a lot of folks out for free and many have taken their first deer with me , never charged a penny
 
Your mentees Chris, I take it you're not encouraging them to undertake DSC1 then? If so, how do you plan to teach them the contents of the DSC1 manual and give them ready ongoing access to the sheer volume of information contained within so they can continue to refer to until fully ingrained?
 
tjm160 said:
Your mentees Chris, I take it you're not encouraging them to undertake DSC1 then? If so, how do you plan to teach them the contents of the DSC1 manual and give them ready ongoing access to the sheer volume of information contained within so they can continue to refer to until fully ingrained?
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its their choice if they want to do it or not , im very confused as to why you seem to see the dsc manual as a bible? do you bury your grallochs 1 metre down ?
 
Oh dear Chris, have you really thought this through?

Have you undertaken DSC1 yourself?

Are you even remotely aware of the sheer amount of information contained within the DSC1 manual that a candidate is required to assume in order to be able to meet the standard?

Are you honestly trying to tell us all that you hold every single piece of information to become an effective deer stalker and process carcasses into the food chain in your head, that you can readily recall to teach your mentees and they can retain from conversations in the field?
 
tjm160 said:
Oh dear Chris, have you really thought this through?

Have you undertaken DSC1 yourself?

Are you even remotely aware of the sheer amount of information contained within the DSC1 manual that a candidate is required to assume in order to be able to meet the standard?

Are you honestly trying to tell us all that you hold every single piece of information to become an effective deer stalker and process carcasses into the food chain in your head, that you can readily recall to teach your mentees and they can retain from conversations in the field?
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yes 13 years or so ago actually , again why do you hold the dsc manual in such high esteem ? and again do you bury grallochs 1 metre deep ?
 
The guidelines to bury gralloch have changed since we undertook DSC1 Chris and it is no longer mandated.

I'm sorry to say, but the mere fact you do seem to think you hold in your head and can impart all the knowledge needed to become an effective deer stalker and process carcasses into the food chain in the field suggests an incredible degree of arrogance, a distinct lack of experience, or really not being very bright.
 
tjm160 said:
The guidelines to bury gralloch have changed since we undertook DSC1 Chris and it is no longer mandated.

I'm sorry to say, but the mere fact you do seem to think you hold in your head and can impart all the knowledge needed to become an effective deer stalker and process carcasses into the food chain in the field suggests an incredible degree of arrogance, a distinct lack of experience, or really not being very bright.
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I find it amusing that after 40 culls you have the nerve to criticise someone who during the Doe / hind cull will take that number in a month but then it perfectly makes my point about the dsc system creating instant experts , come back to me in 20 years when you have over a 2000 more and we’ll see if you still hold the manual in such high esteem ☺️ ps it’s Jim not Chris 😏
 
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tjm160 said:
I did my Level 2 stalk with Ian Farrington (Home - Farrington Deer Services) back in March.

I too wanted a practice stalk prior, just to settle in to the idiosyncrasies of the particular witness and the way they work. Ian talked me out of, stating that if I got anything wrong, there were several other stalks over the weekend to get right and so we should simply go live from the outset. A seriously comprehensive brief before hand and I was left with no doubts of his expectations and the stalk ended up unable to have gone any better.

In terms of any so called drop in standards we are either up to the standard or not and a witness of Ian's experience, expertise and keen eye, will simply not accept anything that is not up to standard. That said, although incredibly exacting he is also very kindly and relaxed and goes out of his way to try to help one not overly feel the pressure of everything we do being under such close scrutiny.

As for any speed of passing DSC2, although I have allegedly passed the stalk, I have yet to have my assessors telephone grilling (we didn't cover detailed larder procedure and so I am aware that will receive a particular grilling during interview) and understand my assessor is apparently one of BASC's most senior assessors and extremely thorough. However, after sorting the logistics of Ian sending the cull record to him immediately after the stalk, I've heard nothing more in over two months, despite several follow up emails.
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Surely you had to demonstrate practical lardering to pass?
 
If you don't complete any part of the standards during the stalk (there are check lists for each criteria under each section), as I understand it, your assessor will fully question you on those standards to ensure you meet them (disease for example cannot be 'witnessed', only questioned to ensure you understand what to look for, what to do, what has to be notified, what will result in a carcass having to be rejected from the food chain etc). Any gaps remaining at the end of the telephone interview have to be fulfilled before your assessor is able to sign you off. What that would look like I couldn't honestly say Tim. Obviously there are skills and there are knowledge elements. Anything lacking in skill I imagine may mean a further stalk but what missing knowledge elements would mean, I don't know.
 
You have literally zero arguments to back up your endless tirades against DMQ, you completely ignore arguments supporting and when those who stand up to you don't bow to your pressure you resort to appendage measurement in deer grassed, as if that is any form of measure of true expertise. Brilliant Chris/Jim, even hiding behind a pseudonym, what a perfect advert for the industry let alone humanity :tiphat:
 
tjm160 said:
You have literally zero arguments to back up your endless tirades against DMQ, you completely ignore arguments supporting and when those who stand up to you don't bow to your pressure you resort to appendage measurement in deer grassed, as if that is any form of measure of true expertise. Brilliant Chris/Jim, even hiding behind a pseudonym, what a perfect advert for the industry let alone humanity :tiphat:
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@tjm160 I’ve asked several times why you hold the dsc manual in such high regard and why you get so wound up if someone dares speak against your beloved courses , you yourself have admitted that your experience is very very limited , yes experience is more important than taking courses I know that will sting a bit but it’s true as I’ve said the dsc system has become a money making scheme I believe when it started it was started with good intentions but sadly now it just churns out instant experts like yourself
 
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