DSC2

Are they passing or failing, is there data available for the deer shot/dsc2 / pass fail rate?
Back when I was an AW I’ve had people with zero muzzle awareness, no unloading getting into a high seat, also shooting of the wrong sex because they thought it was a doe when it was actually a cast buck and that’s just a basics.

For what it was, there was no fail. You just kept going until you passed if I remember correctly.

I’m bloody glad that I am no longer an AW

Then again on the opposite side of the coin, you had those with the experience who were absolutely blinding, absolutely perfect.

Experience is King the one stalk wonder is just a mad scrap to get as many people through as possible to get as many Deer shot as possible
 
That’s the problem nowadays, people are signing up for it and they’re not competent, they’re shooting one or two Deer and then signing up for level 2 I think they’re ready.
I get what you mean in that case but my point was more that if they are competent then they will pass if you have to shoot 1 or 10, if they are unsafe you will identify that in the single stalk and the same if they aren’t competent in the shot / processing.

I don’t disagree that reducing the requirement was a cynical decision to try and get more people to do it and I suspect that it makes space for yet another course in the future but if people aren’t ready they fail on the first or the only beast / stalk.
 
I get what you mean in that case but my point was more that if they are competent then they will pass if you have to shoot 1 or 10, if they are unsafe you will identify that in the single stalk and the same if they aren’t competent in the shot / processing.

I don’t disagree that reducing the requirement was a cynical decision to try and get more people to do it and I suspect that it makes space for yet another course in the future but if people aren’t ready they fail on the first or the only beast / stalk.
100% If I they can prove their competence in 1 stalk happy days, no need for anymore BUT they should be ready and be confident to pass what’s required and not needing prior training sessions!

All the pre L2 courses and Prior training is just a money making gimmick, you should be at the standard required BEFORE you apply
 
I did my Level 2 stalk with Ian Farrington (Home - Farrington Deer Services) back in March.

I too wanted a practice stalk prior, just to settle in to the idiosyncrasies of the particular witness and the way they work. Ian talked me out of, stating that if I got anything wrong, there were several other stalks over the weekend to get right and so we should simply go live from the outset. A seriously comprehensive brief before hand and I was left with no doubts of his expectations and the stalk ended up unable to have gone any better.

In terms of any so called drop in standards we are either up to the standard or not and a witness of Ian's experience, expertise and keen eye, will simply not accept anything that is not up to standard. That said, although incredibly exacting he is also very kindly and relaxed and goes out of his way to try to help one not overly feel the pressure of everything we do being under such close scrutiny.

As for any speed of passing DSC2, although I have allegedly passed the stalk, I have yet to have my assessors telephone grilling (we didn't cover detailed larder procedure and so I am aware that will receive a particular grilling during interview) and understand my assessor is apparently one of BASC's most senior assessors and extremely thorough. However, after sorting the logistics of Ian sending the cull record to him immediately after the stalk, I've heard nothing more in over two months, despite several follow up emails.
 
I would just add that whoever you go out with, it would be advisable to have direct experience with both species and sex that will comprise your cull. On that very specific note, I would also concede that a single cull when there are key handling differences between different species and sex does leave 'some' room for controversy around the qualification. Equally, that controversy would exist whether a single or multiple culls, if only dealing with the same species/sex. However, if one should only be experienced with the smaller species for example, yet can process those into the food chain without incident, if they then come to handle one of the bigger species the principles are still the same and should they make any error with their first encounters with larger species (or vice versa), then the carcass simply doesn't enter the food chain. Having achieved DSC2 standard in the first place, they would know precisely what would and would not mean that carcass can or cannot enter the food chain, so I struggle to understand the controversy.

I only have Muntjac and Roe on my grounds and as experienced and confident as I may be with those, I had zero experience of the Fallow I would expect to encounter with Ian at the time of year I undertook the assessment stalk (mid March). I took a guided stalk to get direct experience a few weeks prior, resulting in a Fallow Doe and wholly successful completely clean gralloch. However, I hadn't actually gralloched a Fallow Buck prior to the DSC2 stalk and that did concern me. In practice, I needn't have worried. If one can confidently handle the irksome nature of extracting the urethra from a Muntjac/Roe buck (big bloke with big hands that struggle to fit inside the groin of smaller bucks) without 'incident', even though my first Fallow Buck, boy was it easy in comparison and so net result, completely clean carcass fit for the food chain, which is all DSC2 is actually there to test. Does one need to shoot hundreds of deer to be able to successfully process a carcass into the food chain? Any sensible and reasonable person would argue not and exactly how many culls that needs, is entirely down to the individual. Either one is confident and can meet the standards, or one is not and whether after five or fifty culls, is entirely down to the individual. For me, I was simply not confident until my cull count exceeded the 20-25 recommend before applying for DSC2. However, one of the chaps I took guided stalks with prior, needed considerably less for his.
 
100% If I they can prove their competence in 1 stalk happy days, no need for anymore BUT they should be ready and be confident to pass what’s required and not needing prior training sessions!

All the pre L2 courses and Prior training is just a money making gimmick, you should be at the standard required BEFORE you apply
ALL the courses are a money making gimmick
 
Absolute bollocks the pair of you.

You can take on as many mentees as you like, you simply cannot furnish them with the same starting knowledge in remotely the same cost, efficacy or consistency or leave them with the written materials to be able to continue to refer to until firmly engrained.

All the relentless wining does nothing for you, the candidates or the industry.
 
Absolute bollocks the pair of you.

You can take on as many mentees as you like, you simply cannot furnish them with the same starting knowledge in remotely the same cost, efficacy or consistency or leave them with the written materials to be able to continue to refer to until firmly engrained.

All the relentless wining does nothing for you, the candidates or the industry.
I don’t have candidates any more and bloody good job too!

I don’t have the blood pressure levels for any more or the bull💩 sieve that goes with it!
 
Which makes your relentless criticism of those who do make the sacrifice to help those starting out even more ridiculous.

You've done your bit, rest on your laurels and support those who do now need to take the deep breath and sharp intake of breath through the front teeth dealing with newbies.
 
Which makes your relentless criticism of those who do make the sacrifice to help those starting out even more ridiculous.

You've done your bit, rest on your laurels and support those who do now need to take the deep breath and sharp intake of breath through the front teeth dealing with newbies.
I sacrificed for 15 years for DMQ witnessed for nothing took people stalking for nothing all so they could do their L2!

back then it was a proper job now it’s a half cocked Job to be please the masses.

DMQ can do one ☝️ for all I care, bollocks to them 🖕

The fault is not with the troops but with the hierarchy!
 
In your opinion, which to others is as compromised as your patience (albeit understandably so - I wouldn't wish to be involved with the formal side of things either - an utterly thankless task!).

Simply put, a candidate either meets the standards or they do not and the likelihood of winging it and sliding past a wise old authorised witness is extremely remote. Therefore, it frankly doesn't matter whether one stalk or three but at least one stalk is a damn sight less costly for a candidate than three.
 
I have a fraction of the experience of the pair of you. However, I'm just shy of 40-culls and so do have sufficient experience to at least make some difference to new stalkers and after being asked, have taken two on; one, a younger man, whom I insisted he completed DSC1 before putting him on his first deer. He still accompanied me on my stalks to gain experience but waiting until he had passed DSC1 took the pressure off us both enormously. The second chap is a year older than me and given his life experience, the timing of his DSC1 course availability and present opportunities meant it made more sense to just put him on his first deer sooner than later. However, the time it continues to take for both of us in me explaining the most rudimentary elements of simple knowledge make it far far more preferable to have insisted on him completing DSC1 first also.
 
In your opinion, which to others is as compromised as your patience (albeit understandably so - I wouldn't wish to be involved with the formal side of things either - an utterly thankless task!).

Simply put, a candidate either meets the standards or they do not and the likelihood of winging it and sliding past a wise old authorised witness is extremely remote. Therefore, it frankly doesn't matter whether one stalk or three but at least one stalk is a damn sight less costly for a candidate than three.
I personally wouldn’t know , I did it for the princely sum of a fry up at the cafe 👍
 
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