UK available propellant for cast bullet rifle calibre reloading

wolfiesmith

Member
I am looking to reload for 303 British with cast bullets - 165gn gas checked. All the reloading information I can find is for propellants which are unavailable now due to REACH regulations.

Can anyone recommend a propellant that’s available which is good for cast loading.

Please note I'm not interested in using small amounts of pistol propellant, I'm looking for a rifle propellant
 
I recently sold 2x tubs of N110 to a bloke at my range who said he was using it for cast bullets in a .303.
He told me that he casts 2 different weights and uses the N110 in the lighter slower loads and N120 in the slightly heavier faster loads.
I'm going to get it wrong but I'm sure he said he was using an IMR powder, started with a 4? but finally ran out of it a 18ish months ago.
 
I recently sold 2x tubs of N110 to a bloke at my range who said he was using it for cast bullets in a .303.
He told me that he casts 2 different weights and uses the N110 in the lighter slower loads and N120 in the slightly heavier faster loads.
I'm going to get it wrong but I'm sure he said he was using an IMR powder, started with a 4? but finally ran out of it a 18ish months ago.
IMR 4227?
 
I recently sold 2x tubs of N110 to a bloke at my range who said he was using it for cast bullets in a .303.
He told me that he casts 2 different weights and uses the N110 in the lighter slower loads and N120 in the slightly heavier faster loads.
I'm going to get it wrong but I'm sure he said he was using an IMR powder, started with a 4? but finally ran out of it a 18ish months ago.
Thanks for the info, it was probably IMR4227 or 4198 he was using, N110 and 120 look like similar speeds to these two respectively on the burn rate chart.
 
I use N110 in my .303, start at 16 grains and work up. This should be very close to the famous 16 grains of 2400, which is the go to load for cast bullets in 'most' military rifles.
BY C.E. Harris

Cast bullet loads usually give a more useful zero at practical field ranges with military battle sights than do full power loads. Nothing is more frustrating than a military rifle that shoots a foot high at 100 yards with surplus ammo when the sight is as low as it will go! Do not use inert fillers (Dacron or kapok) to take up excess empty space in the case. This was once common practice, but it raises chamber pressure and under certain conditions contributes to chamber ringing. If a particular load will not work well without a filler, the powder is not suitable for those conditions of loading. Four load classifications from Mattern (1932) cover all uses for the cast bullet military rifle. I worked up equivalent charges to obtain the desired velocity ranges with modern powders, which provide a sound basis for loading cast bullets in any post-1898 military rifle from 7mm to 8mm:

1. 125 grain plain based “small game/gallery” 900-1000 f.p.s., 5 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

2. 150 grain plain based “100-yard target/small game”, 1050-1250 f.p.s., 7 grains of Bullseye or equivalent.

3. 170-180 grain gas checked “200 yard target”, 1500-1600 f.p.s., 16 grains of Hercules #2400 or equivalent.

4. 180-200 grain gas-checked “deer/600 yard target”, 1750-1850 f.p.s., 26 grains of RL-7 or equivalent.

None of these loads are maximum when used in full-sized rifle cases such as the 30-40 Krag, .303 British, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Jap, 7.62x54R Russian , or 30-06. They can be used as basic load data in most modern military rifles of 7mm or larger, with a standard weight cast bullet for the caliber, such as 140-170 grains in the 7×57, 150-180 grains in the .30 calibers, and 150-190 grains in the 8mm. For bores smaller than 7mm, consult published data.

The Workhorse Load – Mattern’s “200 yard Target”

My favorite load is the most accurate. Mattern’s so-called “200 yard target load.” I expect 10 shot groups at 200 yards, firing prone rapid with sling to average 4-5″. I shoot high Sharpshooter, low Expert scores across the course with an issue 03A3 or M1917, shooting in a cloth coat, using may cast bullet loads. The power of this load approximates the 32-40, inadequate for deer by today’s standards. Mattern’s “200 yard target load” is easy to assemble. Because it is a mild load, soft scrap alloys usually give better accuracy than harder ones, such as linotype. Local military collector-shooters have standardized on 16 grains of #2400 as the “universal” prescription. It gives around 1500 f.p.s. with a 150-180 grain cast bullet in almost any military caliber. We use 16 grains of #2400 as our reference standard, just as high power competitors use 168 Sierra Match Kings and 4895.

The only common military rifle cartridge in which 16 grains of #2400 provides a maximum load, and which must not be exceeded, is in the tiny 7.63x39mm case. Most SKS rifles will function reliably with charges of #2400 as light as 14 grains with the Lee 312-155-2R at around 1500 f.p.s. I designed this bullet especially for the 7.62×39, but it works very well as a light bullet in any .30 or .303 caliber rifle.

Sixteen Grains of #2400 is the Universal Load

The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9×57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is not “position sensitive”, requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.

Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62×39 to 30-06 size. If you don’t have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results.

However, these other powders may give some vertical stringing in cases larger than the 7.62×39 unless the charge is positioned against the primer by tipping the muzzle up before firing. Hercules #2400 does not require this precaution. Don’t ask me why. Hercules #2400 usually gives tight clusters only within a narrow range of charge weights within a grain or so, and the “universal” 16 grain load is almost always the best. Believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to improve on this, and you can take our word for it.

The beauty of the “200 yard target load” at about 1500 f.p.s. is that it can be assembled from bullets cast from the cheapest, inexpensive scrap alloy, and fired all day without having to clean the bore. It always works. Leading is never a problem. Once a uniform bore condition is established, the rifle behaves like a .22 match rifle, perhaps needing a warming shot or two if it has cooled, but otherwise being remarkably consistent.

The only thing I do after a day’s shooting with this load is to swab the bore with a couple of wet patches of GI bore cleaner or Hoppe’s, and let it soak until the next match. I then follow with three dry patches prior to firing. It takes only about three foulers to get the 03A3 to settle into tight little clusters again.

“Deer and Long Range Target Load”

Mattern’s “deer and 600 yard target load” can be assembled in cases of 30-40 Krag capacity or larger up to 30-06 using 18-21 grains of #2400 or 4227, 22-25 grains of 4198, 25-28 grains of RL-7 or 27-30 grains of 4895, which give from 1700-1800 f.p.s., depending on the case size. These charges must not be used in cases smaller than the 303 British without cross checking against published data! The minimum charge should always be used initially, and the charge adjusted within the specified range only as necessary to get best grouping.

Popular folklore suggests a barrel must be near perfect for good results with cast bullets, but this is mostly bunk, though you may have to be persistent.

I have a rusty-bored Finnish M28/30 which I have shot extensively, in making direct comparisons with the same batches of loads on the same day with a mint M28 and there was no difference. The secret in getting a worn bore to shoot acceptably is to remove all prior fouling and corrosion. Then you must continue to clean the bore “thoroughly and often” until it maintains a consistent bore condition over the long term. You must also keep cast bullet loads under 1800 f.p.s. for hunting and under 1600 f.p.s. for target work.

A cleaned and restored bore will usually give good accuracy with cast bullet loads if the bullet fits the chamber throat properly, is well lubricated and the velocities are kept below 1800 f.p.s.

The distinction between throat diameter and groove diameter in determining proper bullet size is important. If you are unable to determine throat diameter from a chamber cast, a rule of thumb is to size bullets .002″ over groove diameter, such as .310″ for a 30-06, .312″ for a 7.63x54R and .314″ for a .303 British.

“Oversized 30’s”, like the .303 British, 7.7 Jap, 7.65 Argentine, and 7.62×39 Russian frequently give poor accuracy with .30 caliber cast bullets designed for U.S. barrels having .300 bore and .308 groove dimensions. This is because the part of the bullet ahead of the driving bands receives no guidance from the lands in barrel s of larger bore diameter. The quick rule of thumb to checking proper fit of the forepart is to insert the bullet, nose first, into the muzzle. If it enters clear up to the front driving band without being noticeably engraved, accuracy will seldom be satisfactory.

The forepart is not too large if loaded rounds can be chambered with only slight resistance, the bullet does not telescope back into the case, or stick in the throat when extracted without firing. A properly fitting cast bullet should engrave the forepart positively with the lands, and be no more than .001″ under chamber throat diameter on the driving bands. Cast bullets with a tapered forepart at least .002″ over bore diameter give the best results.

Many pre-WWII Russian rifles of US make, and later Finnish reworks, particularly those with Swiss barrels by the firm SIG, have very snug chamber necks and cannot be used with bullets over .311″ diameter unless case necks are reamed or outside turned to .011″ wall thickness to provide safe clearance.

Bullets with a large forepart, like the Lee 312-155-2R or Lyman #314299 work best with the 7.62x54R because the forcing cones are large and gradual. Standard .30 caliber gas-checks are correct.

Finnish 7.62x54R, Russian 7.62×39 and 7.65 Argentine barrels are smaller than Russian 7.62x54R, Chinese 7.62×39, Jap 7.7 or .303 British barrels, and usually have standard .300″ bore diameter. (Finnish barrels occasionally are as small as .298″) and groove diameters of .310 -.3115″.

In getting the best grouping with iron sighted military rifles, eyesight is the limiting factor. Anybody over age 40 who shoots iron sights should equip himself with a “Farr-Sight” from Gil Hebard or Brownell’s. This adjustable aperture for your eyeglass frame was intended for indoor pistol shooters, but it helps my iron sight rifle shooting, and adds about 5 points to my score!

So now you have enough fundamentals to get started. If you want to have fun, give that old military rifle a try. You’ll never know the fun you’ve been missing until you try it!
 
IMR 4227?
Sounds about right, it was 4 something.
Uses it for cast stuff in a K98 as well.

Apart from unique for pistol calibres I've only ever used vit stuff. I started reloading just before everything was banned so tried to get what I knew was still going to be available in the years to come.
 
After doing some research on N110 looks like 13-16gns, so small amount of powder in a large case which I was trying to avoid as I don't want to have to single load to make sure powder is sitting over the primer. Looks like all the fast but bulky powders which would better fill the case are now banned.

I'm also down to my last 1/2 pot of 4895 which has been my go to for jacketed bullets for 20 years so will need to work up new loads....so happy we are being kept safe from 'dangerous' chemicals :(
 
After doing some research on N110 looks like 13-16gns, so small amount of powder in a large case which I was trying to avoid as I don't want to have to single load to make sure powder is sitting over the primer. Looks like all the fast but bulky powders which would better fill the case are now banned.

I'm also down to my last 1/2 pot of 4895 which has been my go to for jacketed bullets for 20 years so will need to work up new loads....so happy we are being kept safe from 'dangerous' chemicals :(
I never had to single feed any of my loads, and 16 was my starting load. I used a bit more for my accurate load. Read the C E Harris info I stuck up, should help you out.

Below is me shooting a club rapid with my No4 MK2, NOE 210 grn bullets cast bullets, powder coated and gas checked, pushed by 16 grains of N110.


Good luck finding something that works for you, just be super mindful of double charging when loading!
 
I am looking to reload for 303 British with cast bullets - 165gn gas checked. All the reloading information I can find is for propellants which are unavailable now due to REACH regulations.

What powders have you got data for that are no longer available? That way people can advise where you might find data for powder still available. If Unique or 2400 is still available beg, borrow, or steal a Lyman 44th or 45th Edition manual.

Or just get a helpful bloke on SD to do a screen print?

303.webp
 
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What powders have you got data for that are no longer available? That way people can advise where you might find data for powder still available. If Unique or 2400 is still available beg, borrow, or steal a Lyman 44th or 45th Edition manual.

Or just get a helpful bloke on SD to do a screen print?

View attachment 482867
I have a bunch of manuals but I was trying to avoid red dot, unique and other pistol powders which use a few grains of powder in a large case - previously I have used powders for cast bullets which allow me to more than half fill the case - 24-28gn approx. Also these powders give velocities which closer match standard ammo 2200+ rather than around 1700-1800 from the pistol powders.
 
I have a bunch of manuals but I was trying to avoid red dot, unique and other pistol powders which use a few grains of powder in a large case - previously I have used powders for cast bullets which allow me to more than half fill the case - 24-28gn approx. Also these powders give velocities which closer match standard ammo 2200+ rather than around 1700-1800 from the pistol powders.
I use 15grns of Unique in 7.5x55 Swiss, gives around 1800fps with 150grn SWC cast , only thing you need to be sure of is charging just the single charge, the case remains able to take several more of the same! I just charge and seat one case at a time for safety . if you want a half fill or more then reloder 7 appears (in my manual) to give half the chamber pressure of most other powders
 
I use 15grns of Unique in 7.5x55 Swiss, gives around 1800fps with 150grn SWC cast , only thing you need to be sure of is charging just the single charge, the case remains able to take several more of the same! I just charge and seat one case at a time for safety . if you want a half fill or more then reloder 7 appears (in my manual) to give half the chamber pressure of most other powders
Reloader 7 looks close to what I'm after, will do some more research into it, also looks like its in stock which is a plus. Thanks.
 
I use 2400 for all my cast loads 16- 20 grs for most applications including 30 cals .303 9.3mm .444 or 45-70 works well with jacketed bullets too .a great powder that isn’t case sensitive either
Do you shoot at distance - 300 to 600 using 2400? It looks more like for low velocity shorter range.
 
I have a bunch of manuals but I was trying to avoid red dot, unique and other pistol powders which use a few grains of powder in a large case - previously I have used powders for cast bullets which allow me to more than half fill the case - 24-28gn approx. Also these powders give velocities which closer match standard ammo 2200+ rather than around 1700-1800 from the pistol powders.

Question, do you have any confirmed load info for using Red Dot?

I ask as I don't, but questioned Google for one. It suggests 10-13gr of RD. Running a comparison on the Reload Swiss chart, gives me RS12.


Now, I'm fairly sure RS12 is a fairly fluffy powder at least from what I've seen in the shops? It comes in exactly the same sized containers as the 1kg of RS rifle powders, but are only 500g. Shaking the tub, it would suggest it's of similar volume to the 1kg tubs too.

So my man maths would think 10-13gr of RS12 would give you similar volumes to 20-26gr of rifle powder.
 
Question, do you have any confirmed load info for using Red Dot?

I ask as I don't, but questioned Google for one. It suggests 10-13gr of RD. Running a comparison on the Reload Swiss chart, gives me RS12.


Now, I'm fairly sure RS12 is a fairly fluffy powder at least from what I've seen in the shops? It comes in exactly the same sized containers as the 1kg of RS rifle powders, but are only 500g. Shaking the tub, it would suggest it's of similar volume to the 1kg tubs too.

So my man maths would think 10-13gr of RS12 would give you similar volumes to 20-26gr of rifle powder.
Lyman cast bullet handbook gives 10gn red dot for starting load for 150, 200 and 210gn with max load or 13.5, 13 and 12.5.

I can't find any data for RS12 but its a very fast powder, would not think its suitable.
 
Lyman cast bullet handbook gives 10gn red dot for starting load for 150, 200 and 210gn with max load or 13.5, 13 and 12.5.

I can't find any data for RS12 but its a very fast powder, would not think its suitable.

Please look at the link in my original post. That is the Reload Swiss burn rate chart, it puts RS12 as a direct alternative to Red Dot? So if RS12 is too fast, then surely Red Dot will be too.
 
Please look at the link in my original post. That is the Reload Swiss burn rate chart, it puts RS12 as a direct alternative to Red Dot? So if RS12 is too fast, then surely Red Dot will be too.
Its not just burn rates, composition, shape and density of powders make a huge difference, V110 and N110 have very similar burn rates but behave differntly.

I'm not saying it would not work but I'd like to see some data first
 
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