Available: 3 days Traditional Hunting for Moose with Dogs in Lapland

[pheasant sniper 1]

Christian and Tuomas,

Thankyou for your reply....

Some bullet points for you to answer one at a time...

1. A lot of the stands were in appalling positions with most hunters stating as they left the van what bloody chance would I have here... A moose would either need a rope to abseil down the hill or a rope to climb what was in front of the hunter...Myself only on one occasion did I feel out of all the stands was I in with a chance... On one occasion I spent four hours looking at a 600m of open ground before the forest even started... " Moose do not like to break cover" was ringing in my ears

2. Whilst asking us to close the doors quietly, Is this really necessary when if its not a chopper hanging over head you have chosen to put us on the busiest road in 17,000 hectares ? Not one of us saw another hunter placed by the side of a large gravel track, but I can assure you every other bloody hunter saw and passed us.. Why was that ?

3. Are you seriously suggesting an Apple and bag of family crisps passed round with a cold beer is adequate or acceptable when hunters have handed over a 140 euro's each and have spent the last four hours being still in -2 to +5 degrees ? Offering a sausage then an apple and crisps then finally a plastic cold water cup and Prawn Cuppa Soups round clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding or effort in looking after your clients. It takes very little effort to supply hot food in a large billy or tea and coffee to warm hunters however this may have taken more thought and preparation than handing out an apple and crisps Why allow us to hand over a 140 euro's giving us the impression food would be taken care of then take us to a restaurant where you have ordered the same thing for everybody. If that was the case and explained I would have liked to have chosen what I wanted.

4. The fact you try and justify what was clearly a shambles bewilders me. Not a single dog drove anything to the line other than one of them ragging a reindeer. You stated as you quickly rounded some of us into the van we were racing to cut off a bull moose but on arriving the dog was walking up and down the track looking lost which then refused to get in the van.

5. QUOTE "We can agree the hunt did not go as well as it could have with moose getting shot and the traditional food and cabin provision was not what you like but the hunting produced moose and chances to shoot moose. AS the add said" -

-Absolute rubbish, Sika Stav had a bull moose infront of him and was told not to shoot by your guide who said it was a cow, until it started running off then turned into a Bull. Jonny shot a young Cow and the one big Bull Moose made it to safe ground. You call that as said in the ADD ?

6. This is also a fact... We hear over the radio. " Guns be ready, we have a Moose in the drive" then Mick comes on saying ones already sat on his lap and the others licking Fran. Great dogs supposed to be driving Moose?


8. New grounds, untrained dogs, choppers herding Reindeer, logging wagons driving past, poor food, inappropriate digs for the number of hunters, unsafe shooting positions as Fran frantically steps forward waving his orange hat, he is infact behind a bush on a ride.

7.Every hunter explained in detail their disappointment and I told you personally if I left the hunting area without you putting things right I would post on every forum I frequent.. Your shrug of the shoulders gave me all the inspiration needed to come on here and make my write up.. This is the only forum I have spoken on at the moment and I personally have no desire to hunt with you again. I would like as a gesture of good will from yourselves a small refund please...

Terry

 

[lambsey]

Christian,

Are you going to respond to my private e-mail????

 

[seibassman7]

I have just spent a little while reading through the whole thread and I can understand the disappointment/frustration/anger. I hope that the points raised are answered and a resolution reached.

Matthew

 

[CWMMAN3738]

I had a similar conversation with Christian last year to no avail but out of respect for John because he ran the trip none of us posted anything however we now feel that Christian's cons need to be stopped!

 

[johnstalker]

good 1 terry you are 100% right they could not organise a p--- up in a brewery they told me to watch the woods in front of me no bloody moose was going to come out of there as the wind was blowing from my back. I refused to pay for the food and beer as I do not drink I never saw any soft drinks except what I bought my self as for the moose I do not think that on their land there is that many. I did pay for my meals in the pub and 1 breakfast. The other thing that I would to ask is that if it is a legal requirement to have a radio why were we charged for it , it should have been part of the package and not an extra I am also very disappointed and would like some of my money returned johnstalker

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Dustin, that's crap mate and false. (edit: this in relation to the 2012 club hunt)

I was standing beside you when you very bluntly demanded money back because you thought everyone (you) should get trigger time at moose.

Christian did offer you money back but in front of me and a couple of others he specifically said that to give us all money back he would have to fine the gun that shot the cow moose that we were expressly told we were not to shoot. That was the what practically ended our hunting and caused the stir that you kicked off about. This was after you had shot a nice keiler, your brother had shot a moose and two others were returned to larder.

While you were clearly ignorant of the spirit of the hunt and targets of the hosting Fins, you embarrassed several of us who connected with the ethos of what it was about. You mouthed off about shooting any moose you saw regardless of sex in front of some Fins who understood English quite well. Then they left that night and wouldn't hunt with us which obviously must have just been a coincidence.

Cut the BS, that trip we were on was not perfect but we shot:

3 Moose
2 Roe which would have been 3 if I had decided to shoot another doe
1 Wild Boar
1 Raccoon Dog

That's pretty good for a small scale club hunt.

 

[EMcC]

Cut the BS, that trip we were on was not perfect but we shot:
3 Moose
2 Roe which would have been 3 if I had decided to shoot another doe
1 Wild Boar
1 Raccoon Dog
That's pretty good for a small scale club hunt.

Paul, Have I got this right, was what you have quoted above for fifteen guns over three days ?
The other thing I have picked up on, while reading about this trip, is that a similar trip went the same way last year !!
Surely, if that had been posted about, this trip would not have gone ahead !!

 

[Paul at Fechan]

No Eddie, that was the 2012 hunt, less guns on a smaller club ground. Including the Fins I this there would be around 12-14 guns on the day? There was a lot less Fins after things went south!

 

[EMcC]

No Eddie, that was the 2012 hunt, less guns on a smaller club ground. Including the Fins I this there would be around 12 guns on the day?

Ah, Thanks for the clarification.
That was the one Robbo organised then.
I nearly went on this years shoot but had a funny feeling, not sure, too cheap or just a gut feeling but it seems I was lucky because I don't think I'd have enjoyed it very much from what I've read.

 

[CWMMAN3738]

The only BS is coming from you Paul & everyone knows it but you carry on boy it will out in the end! " OH WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE, "END OF

Dustin, that's crap mate and false. (edit: this in relation to the 2012 club hunt)

I was standing beside you when you very bluntly demanded money back because you thought everyone (you) should get trigger time at moose.

Christian did offer you money back but in front of me and a couple of others he specifically said that to give us all money back he would have to fine the gun that shot the cow moose that we were expressly told we were not to shoot. That was the what practically ended our hunting and caused the stir that you kicked off about. This was after you had shot a nice keiler, your brother had shot a moose and two others were returned to larder.

While you were clearly ignorant of the spirit of the hunt and targets of the hosting Fins, you embarrassed several of us who connected with the ethos of what it was about. You mouthed off about shooting any moose you saw regardless of sex in front of some Fins who understood English quite well. Then they left that night and wouldn't hunt with us which obviously must have just been a coincidence.

Cut the BS, that trip we were on was not perfect but we shot:

3 Moose
2 Roe which would have been 3 if I had decided to shoot another doe
1 Wild Boar
1 Raccoon Dog

That's pretty good for a small scale club hunt.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I suspect not

...but that aside the laughs were the best I've ever had

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Dustin, sure don't like the truth much do you. What have I got to gain from this and going back and setting the record straight on last year? Obviously you have a personal agenda by trying to thrust yourself into the mix. And that would be fine, if you weren't spinning something different from the way it was.

I paid my money like you, I haven't see a live moose in any hunt yet but the 2012 hunt was fine in terms of structure, organisation and reward. Sure it could have worked out better but that was through a mistake of a gun and not the organisers.

Terry and other on the 2013 hunt have made there issues clear and this needs addressed but what did you say about the 2012 hunt??? OH YES!!! THAT'S RIGHT

no wayne they were very small for the size/age if the boar i boiled them out and brought them home and they didnt make much more than 3 inches unfortunatly.
and thanks to all who made the trip so enjoyable dispite us only having 1 day's moose hunting i throughly enjoyed myself and will be back next year with the right kit and hopefully a better understanding of what to expect, thanks again John.

 

[Stephenl]

Paul,

As in my previous comments on this thread we are all going to have a different version of what happened and what didn't. The reason I made comment, and made it clear that I enjoyed the trip, was due to there being a few points raised by Terry that sounded rather familiar, you may disagree but thats your choice.

I don't know what Dustin's agenda is or if he has one other than speaking out, but the trip we went on was in my mind not as advertised, I went there to shoot Moose or at least have a reasonable opportunity to shoot one but one days Moose hunting when I paid for three through absolutely no fault of my own?? I put this down to teething problems on a new venture and did not post anything as I did enjoy the trip but would have hoped that lessons where learnt by the host which by reading the posts clearly they have not been. I spoke long and hard to Christian about the female moose been shot and the trip on a whole and made it clear that I really enjoyed it for what it was. As in my last post I made comment regarding the young bull moose been shot by a club member, not by one of the group, what happened to him as I distinctly remember this causing a bit a a sh*t storm and the head\antlers where removed and disposed of rather quickly. We where also told to put as many rounds down at any moose we saw on the first night. You mention a discussion of a refund of sort?. I don't recall this at all. Yes in conversation with Christian while walking I was invited to go back and shoot with him and his friends but this was discussed on a personnel level and never as refund. I can go on but don't see any point and any comment made was not meant to hi jack the thread related to the last hunt but mealy highlight some points that are similar, I was looking to go on the last trip but due to a number of reasons I could not and to be honest reading the reports I would have been extremely disappointed and upset if I had gone.

Really don't want to fall out over this with anyone, just stating my point of view so others can see this was not a one off.Yes the group shot the boar, roe and racoon dog but I specifically went there to see/shoot Moose with the hope of shooting a boar if the opportunity came around and not be penalised through as you mention a individuals actions(which I don't blame him for at all-see my last post). If the advert had explained more then maybe things would have been different, put this down to language barriers or poor communication, thats up to the individual to decide.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Your right Stephen, I don't disagree that similar things were less than ideal in 2012 and I do not disagree that instructions on the first evening varied by the morning leaving a little confusion but behind that I did trust that the hosts wanted a success. It was a new venture like you said that ended up finished for them after the first hunt at that ground.

I think my point was that after that trip my intention would be to return and try again with the organisers because there was a stong attraction from the bite we had. Dustin plainly indicated similar intentions to return in his post. What happened to turn this who knows?! I think we are in agreement that there were issues from the 2012 trip that seem to have escalated in the 2013 trip to become problems voiced already.

Terry has put the ball back in the organisers court. At least there is dialog so fingers crossed!

 

[CWMMAN3738]

Very accurate Steve we were never offered any sort of refund to my knowledge if we had been I know 5 that would have taken it, proof is in the fact that we have gone overseas hunting with a different operator this year that says it all!

Paul,

As in my previous comments on this thread we are all going to have a different version of what happened and what didn't. The reason I made comment, and made it clear that I enjoyed the trip, was due to there being a few points raised by Terry that sounded rather familiar, you may disagree but thats your choice.

I don't know what Dustin's agenda is or if he has one other than speaking out, but the trip we went on was in my mind not as advertised, I went there to shoot Moose or at least have a reasonable opportunity to shoot one but one days Moose hunting when I paid for three through absolutely no fault of my own?? I put this down to teething problems on a new venture and did not post anything as I did enjoy the trip but would have hoped that lessons where learnt by the host which by reading the posts clearly they have not been. I spoke long and hard to Christian about the female moose been shot and the trip on a whole and made it clear that I really enjoyed it for what it was. As in my last post I made comment regarding the young bull moose been shot by a club member, not by one of the group, what happened to him as I distinctly remember this causing a bit a a sh*t storm and the head\antlers where removed and disposed of rather quickly. We where also told to put as many rounds down at any moose we saw on the first night. You mention a discussion of a refund of sort?. I don't recall this at all. Yes in conversation with Christian while walking I was invited to go back and shoot with him and his friends but this was discussed on a personnel level and never as refund. I can go on but don't see any point and any comment made was not meant to hi jack the thread related to the last hunt but mealy highlight some points that are similar, I was looking to go on the last trip but due to a number of reasons I could not and to be honest reading the reports I would have been extremely disappointed and upset if I had gone.

Really don't want to fall out over this with anyone, just stating my point of view so others can see this was not a one off.Yes the group shot the boar, roe and racoon dog but I specifically went there to see/shoot Moose with the hope of shooting a boar if the opportunity came around and not be penalised through as you mention a individuals actions(which I don't blame him for at all-see my last post). If the advert had explained more then maybe things would have been different, put this down to language barriers or poor communication, thats up to the individual to decide.

 

[Hunt n Seek]

Terry. To reply to your questions
1. A lot of the stands were in appalling positions with most hunters stating as they left the van what bloody chance would I have here... A moose would either need a rope to abseil down the hill or a rope to climb what was in front of the hunter...Myself only on one occasion did I feel out of all the stands was I in with a chance... On one occasion I spent four hours looking at a 600m of open ground before the forest even started... " Moose do not like to break cover" was ringing in my ears

Every hunter gets a stand. Some stand look better that others. Any stand can get a moose move across or behind it. This is the same for any hunting with stands

2. Whilst asking us to close the doors quietly, Is this really necessary when if its not a chopper hanging over head you have chosen to put us on the busiest road in 17,000 hectares ? Not one of us saw another hunter placed by the side of a large gravel track, but I can assure you every other bloody hunter saw and passed us.. Why was that ?


The moose don't mind vehicles on the roads. But doors being closed loudly and talking is very bad.

3. Are you seriously suggesting an Apple and bag of family crisps passed round with a cold beer is adequate or acceptable when hunters have handed over a 140 euro's each and have spent the last four hours being still in -2 to +5 degrees ? Offering a sausage then an apple and crisps then finally a plastic cold water cup and Prawn Cuppa Soups round clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding or effort in looking after your clients. It takes very little effort to supply hot food in a large billy or tea and coffee to warm hunters however this may have taken more thought and preparation than handing out an apple and crisps Why allow us to hand over a 140 euro's giving us the impression food would be taken care of then take us to a restaurant where you have ordered the same thing for everybody. If that was the case and explained I would have liked to have chosen what I wanted.


Food was planned for but you didn't like our traditional fire and sausages so we tried what other hunters asked for with crisps and apples. Fire and sausages was there if hunters wanted it. Why do you think we have fire and sausages . because it is cold. Traditional Hunting as it says in the title but you want different then complain when we try. The hunters drink 30 euro beer each not 20 by the end of the hunt.


4. The fact you try and justify what was clearly a shambles bewilders me. Not a single dog drove anything to the line other than one of them ragging a reindeer. You stated as you quickly rounded some of us into the van we were racing to cut off a bull moose but on arriving the dog was walking up and down the track looking lost which then refused to get in the van.


The dogs found moose in every drive. Where the moose goes is where the moose goes. That is moose hunting. Moose are not game birds easy to drive to guns.

5. QUOTE "We can agree the hunt did not go as well as it could have with moose getting shot and the traditional food and cabin provision was not what you like but the hunting produced moose and chances to shoot moose. AS the add said" -

-Absolute rubbish, Sika Stav had a bull moose infront of him and was told not to shoot by your guide who said it was a cow, until it started running off then turned into a Bull. Jonny shot a young Cow and the one big Bull Moose made it to safe ground. You call that as said in the ADD ?


There was a moose shot. another shot at. another could have been shot at. Yes this is a genuine chance to see or shoot moose and that is FACT. Nothing about that FACT is rubbish

6. This is also a fact... We hear over the radio. " Guns be ready, we have a Moose in the drive" then Mick comes on saying ones already sat on his lap and the others licking Fran. Great dogs supposed to be driving Moose?


You don't tell the whole story. The two trained dogs were on moose when this happened. We had 3 dogs and said this many times. The young dogs were distracted by hunters attracting the dogs. Why feed a moose dog sausages and play with it that should be hunting the moose? That lowers chances.

8. New grounds, untrained dogs, choppers herding Reindeer, logging wagons driving past, poor food, inappropriate digs for the number of hunters, unsafe shooting positions as Fran frantically steps forward waving his orange hat, he is infact behind a bush on a ride.


Hunters were told in the safety talk not to fire on tracks and only into the drive or behind. "make sure you know where the next hunter is" New ground has to be hunted, herders and vehicles in not our fault. We can't stop people using the tracks on our hunt, this is their right.

7.Every hunter explained in detail their disappointment and I told you personally if I left the hunting area without you putting things right I would post on every forum I frequent.. Your shrug of the shoulders gave me all the inspiration needed to come on here and make my write up.. This is the only forum I have spoken on at the moment and I personally have no desire to hunt with you again. I would like as a gesture of good will from yourselves a small refund please...


so you threaten our business in that "chat" then post already over the internet to damage our business and want a refund as well? Maybe in England this is fair but not in Finland. An offer of 1/3 discount on any hunt is more than fair. Some comments already damage our business because you do not understand traditional moose hunting or how to be a hunter in Finland. You use the words "good will" and "please" while trying to end our business?


1/3 discount which can be claimed on our future hunts is more than fair because of this.

Christian and Tuomas

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Your right Stephen, I don't disagree that similar things were less than ideal in 2012 and I do not disagree that instructions on the first evening varied by the morning leaving a little confusion but behind that I did trust that the hosts wanted a success. It was a new venture like you said that ended up finished for them after the first hunt at that ground.

I think my point was that after that trip my intention would be to return and try again with the organisers because there was a stong attraction from the bite we had. Dustin plainly indicated similar intentions to return in his post. What happened to turn this who knows?! I think we are in agreement that there were issues from the 2012 trip that seem to have escalated in the 2013 trip to become problems voiced already.

Terry has put the ball back in the organisers court. At least there is dialog so fingers crossed!

Thats all well Paul but had I known all this whats come to light I doubt I would have gone on this trip to be a guinee pig to see if they had now got things rite...

This becomes more and more farcical as each page passes...

Ill wait to see if Hunt n Seek make good but if they dont this on here will be a **** in the ocean when the other forums kick off...

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Terry. To reply to your questions
1. A lot of the stands were in appalling positions with most hunters stating as they left the van what bloody chance would I have here... A moose would either need a rope to abseil down the hill or a rope to climb what was in front of the hunter...Myself only on one occasion did I feel out of all the stands was I in with a chance... On one occasion I spent four hours looking at a 600m of open ground before the forest even started... " Moose do not like to break cover" was ringing in my ears

Every hunter gets a stand. Some stand look better that others. Any stand can get a moose move across or behind it. This is the same for any hunting with stands

2. Whilst asking us to close the doors quietly, Is this really necessary when if its not a chopper hanging over head you have chosen to put us on the busiest road in 17,000 hectares ? Not one of us saw another hunter placed by the side of a large gravel track, but I can assure you every other bloody hunter saw and passed us.. Why was that ?


The moose don't mind vehicles on the roads. But doors being closed loudly and talking is very bad.

3. Are you seriously suggesting an Apple and bag of family crisps passed round with a cold beer is adequate or acceptable when hunters have handed over a 140 euro's each and have spent the last four hours being still in -2 to +5 degrees ? Offering a sausage then an apple and crisps then finally a plastic cold water cup and Prawn Cuppa Soups round clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding or effort in looking after your clients. It takes very little effort to supply hot food in a large billy or tea and coffee to warm hunters however this may have taken more thought and preparation than handing out an apple and crisps Why allow us to hand over a 140 euro's giving us the impression food would be taken care of then take us to a restaurant where you have ordered the same thing for everybody. If that was the case and explained I would have liked to have chosen what I wanted.


Food was planned for but you didn't like our traditional fire and sausages so we tried what other hunters asked for with crisps and apples. Fire and sausages was there if hunters wanted it. Why do you think we have fire and sausages . because it is cold. Traditional Hunting as it says in the title but you want different then complain when we try. The hunters drink 30 euro beer each not 20 by the end of the hunt.


4. The fact you try and justify what was clearly a shambles bewilders me. Not a single dog drove anything to the line other than one of them ragging a reindeer. You stated as you quickly rounded some of us into the van we were racing to cut off a bull moose but on arriving the dog was walking up and down the track looking lost which then refused to get in the van.


The dogs found moose in every drive. Where the moose goes is where the moose goes. That is moose hunting. Moose are not game birds easy to drive to guns.

5. QUOTE "We can agree the hunt did not go as well as it could have with moose getting shot and the traditional food and cabin provision was not what you like but the hunting produced moose and chances to shoot moose. AS the add said" -

-Absolute rubbish, Sika Stav had a bull moose infront of him and was told not to shoot by your guide who said it was a cow, until it started running off then turned into a Bull. Jonny shot a young Cow and the one big Bull Moose made it to safe ground. You call that as said in the ADD ?


There was a moose shot. another shot at. another could have been shot at. Yes this is a genuine chance to see or shoot moose and that is FACT. Nothing about that FACT is rubbish

6. This is also a fact... We hear over the radio. " Guns be ready, we have a Moose in the drive" then Mick comes on saying ones already sat on his lap and the others licking Fran. Great dogs supposed to be driving Moose?


You don't tell the whole story. The two trained dogs were on moose when this happened. We had 3 dogs and said this many times. The young dogs were distracted by hunters attracting the dogs. Why feed a moose dog sausages and play with it that should be hunting the moose? That lowers chances.

8. New grounds, untrained dogs, choppers herding Reindeer, logging wagons driving past, poor food, inappropriate digs for the number of hunters, unsafe shooting positions as Fran frantically steps forward waving his orange hat, he is infact behind a bush on a ride.


Hunters were told in the safety talk not to fire on tracks and only into the drive or behind. "make sure you know where the next hunter is" New ground has to be hunted, herders and vehicles in not our fault. We can't stop people using the tracks on our hunt, this is their right.

7.Every hunter explained in detail their disappointment and I told you personally if I left the hunting area without you putting things right I would post on every forum I frequent.. Your shrug of the shoulders gave me all the inspiration needed to come on here and make my write up.. This is the only forum I have spoken on at the moment and I personally have no desire to hunt with you again. I would like as a gesture of good will from yourselves a small refund please...


so you threaten our business in that "chat" then post already over the internet to damage our business and want a refund as well? Maybe in England this is fair but not in Finland. An offer of 1/3 discount on any hunt is more than fair. Some comments already damage our business because you do not understand traditional moose hunting or how to be a hunter in Finland. You use the words "good will" and "please" while trying to end our business?


1/3 discount which can be claimed on our future hunts is more than fair because of this.

Christian and Tuomas

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

I can honestly say, it seems you have put about the same effort into answering these questions as you did our hunt... Why havent you answered all the points? With so many moose being shot around us as you claim why did we never see another line of hunters as we travelled ourselves? Yet we were constantly being driven past ???

Every single hunter agreed they were mostly in unshootable positions... With acres of forest and obvious access not so regularly used we were put out in a line on logging runs which says it all..

I gave you the opportunity face to face to put things rite or I said I would post with honesty what a cluster feck the operation you run is..

You chose to shrug your shoulders whilst taking my money on a hunt you have already admitted was bad.. Its a bit late to accuse me of hurting your business because all you wanted to do was grab the money and run... You should have had the business savvy to make things good with every hunter expressing their disgust.

I aint arguing with you... Theres 18 unhappy hunters from this trip and countless others coming out the wood work complaining from previous trips... Real classy outfit you run !!!

As for the excuses about dogs and sausages and being on a public highway thats just laughable.. How can a hunter attract a dog which starts the drive far away or is chasing a moose supposedly?

I aint the type to get mugged off and take it lying down. I have no desire after your current and previous attitude and history to hunt with you again so its simple, make good with a part refund or with the same honesty shown on here I will have no hesitation writing it up on other forums....

As I said it to your face I dont feel the above is a threat, more of a carrying out what I said I would do which at the time didnt seem to bother you and for that reason and to warn others my post was made

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Very accurate Steve we were never offered any sort of refund to my knowledge if we had been I know 5 that would have taken it, proof is in the fact that we have gone overseas hunting with a different operator this year that says it all!

I was standing there, Christian told you to pay a refund meant fining the gun for shooting the cow moose. The gun was a good lad and we didn't want that.

You tell lies of the forum or have a terrible memory. These are your words after we came back...

thanks to all who made the trip so enjoyable dispite us only having 1 day's moose hunting i throughly enjoyed myself and will be back next year with the right kit and hopefully a better understanding of what to expect, thanks again John.

So you're caught out a liar trying to twist things. It would be nice if people can remain objective thanks.Fingers crossed can still end up with something back, you're not helping that.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Thats all well Paul but had I known all this whats come to light I doubt I would have gone on this trip to be a guinee pig to see if they had now got things rite...

This becomes more and more farcical as each page passes...

Ill wait to see if Hunt n Seek make good but if they dont this on here will be a **** in the ocean when the other forums kick off...

That's fine but lets wait and see if anything else is going to be offered first... like I said there's dialog so give it a chance.