Another Blaser

Google translate:
Accident at firing range

In early May, a serious accident occurred in Bavaria with a hunting rifle. Now examines the police, why the closure of Repetieres was destroyed.


Medevac (symbol image) .A 39-year-old hunter was on May 3, at about 15.00 clock his rifle at the shooting range in Simbach (district Dingolfing-Landau) Zeroing, reported the head of the police station Landau ad Isar, Wolfgang Wilhelm, against hunting experience. When giving a shot of the closure of his rifle Blaser R93 was destroyed and catapulted into the face of the shooter. After the incident, the man was flown by a rescue helicopter in a Munich clinic. The police announced that he was not in mortal danger. Why the gun did not withstand the pressure, is still unclear. Currently, it is determined whether the malfunction by factory or ammunition reloaders caused.
BS



Opinion of Blaser:

To date, we have unfortunately not received any official information about this incident. First, it is important for us to send our sincere wishes for a speedy and full recovery to the shooter.

With regard to the safety of the R93 but we want to take a stand as follows:
Each rifle R93 is after completion of the state Beschussamt according to internationally accepted CIP Guidelines tested. Experiments have also shown that the R93 withstand gas pressures that go far beyond the legal requirements.

In a series of violent tests, which had carried out the German Testing and Test Institute for Hunting and Sporting Arms eV (DEVA), the R93 has been charged with a gas pressure of up to 8,000 bar. Even with this massive pressure, there were no detectable deformations of the barrel in the area of ​​the cartridge chamber. Not even when the sleeves of the previously manipulated extremely overloaded cartridges and thus a massive gas leakage has been generated in the shutter housing. In addition also could be caused to the closure head no visible deformities. The DEVA notes here: If a can due to excessive gas pressure of over 8,000 bar are damaged or destroyed, the results can not be attributed to the bush.

We ask for your understanding that we are at the present time can not make any more extensive assessment of this incident the lack of reliable facts.
 
The most important thing about the article is that at the moment they cannot determine whether it was a designer fault or a fault with reloaded ammunition.
Based on the millions of Blaser rifles sold I know where my money lies ;)
 
[TABLE="class: t_outer, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="class: t_inner, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: post-content, width: 83%, bgcolor: #F7F7F7"]I read this a long time back when this issue was shown with the picture of the guy with sever facial injuries, I think the facts are still out there to be read,

Bob


I am researching the possibility of purchasing a Blaser R93 rifle in the USA and I have some questions, please.

During my research I came across the following statements:

"All the 93 & their Tac versions use the locking splines , thats all thats holding the bolt in place , from what I understand , most (action failures) have been caused by pierced primers , and the gas venting back and melting the plastic washer that actually cams the fingers/splines into battery . Also heard that the 338LM model uses a metal instead of the std plastic washer..."
(Link: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...true#Post387668 )

1. Do you indeed have to close the R93 action with authority to ensure it locks up? There are times I want to do it quietly.

2. Can the R93 fire when not completely locked up?

3. Is there a plastic washer that can melt and cause problems with a pierced
primer/gas venting?

Thank you for your attention,

==============================================================
Answer: ---- Darren Hull <darren.hull
graphic_ampersand.gif
blaser.de wrote:

Thank you for your email.
There certainly is some rubbish written in the internet. Please note that in all of these claimed accidents there are never any facts on these, other than "heard through a friend."

In answer to your questions:

1, You can close the bolt assembly relatively quietly but you do need to ensure that the bolt handle is firmly closed (90 degrees).

2, No. What happens is that: when fired, the firing pin/block first hits the opening lever and first pushes it closed, only then can the firing pin continue through. If the rifle is fired with the bolt assembly not fully closed, there will be a click (bolt assembly closing) and there may be a light indentation on the primer (tell tale sign that the handle was not closed). You can simulate this by dry-firing your rifle with the bolt assembly not fully closed.
The firing pin cannot contact the primer without first closing the handle.

3, There are no plastic/rubber parts on the locking elements.

Fact: Each barrel and bolt head is tested with a minimum of 30% overloaded proof cartridges - this is required by German law.

DEVA have tested our system and proved it to hold pressures of over 8000 bar. (Jaywalker note: 8000 bar = 116,030.19 ppsi, per Google)

We have now sold over 160 000 R93 rifles (including LRS2) - there is not a problem with the design or safety of these rifles.

Should you have any further questions, please let me know

===============================================================
Question �
Mr. Hull,

Thank you for your prompt response. I will post it where it will help create greater understanding.

If I may followup on one of your answers:
"...there will be a click (bolt assembly closing) and there may be a light indentation on the primer (tell tale sign that the handle was not closed). You can simulate this by drying firing your rifle with the bolt assembly not fully closed. The firing pin cannot contact the primer without first closing the handle."

This light indentation on the primer raises a question. Is this indentation from the firing pin, or from something else? I would doubt that US primer manufacturers meet the same level of standards as those in Europe. Here, my CCI primers ignite readily from the relatively heavy impact of my Model 70, but not always from lighter impact of a Remington rifle. For them, I use Federal primers. When reloading for an R93, should I take care to use "harder to ignite" components?

==============================================================
Answer: ---- Darren Hull <darren.hull
graphic_ampersand.gif
blaser.de wrote:

Thank you for your email.
I am very pleased to hear you are considering purchasing an R93. You will not be disappointed!

The light indentation is from the firing pin.
If the bolt assembly is not correctly closed - 2 things can happen

1, The energy from the firing pin/block is only enough to close the bolt assembly but didn�t have enough energy to ignite the primer (leaves light indentation)& results in a misfire.
2, The gun fires. (as normal) What has happened here is that the bolt assembly was first closed by the firing pin/block but then also had enough energy to ignite the primer.

The firing pin cannot touch the primer until the bolt handle is first in closed position.

You definitely do not need to use different primers from those that you normally use.

Should you have any further questions, please let me know


Best Regards
=====================================================

Question -
Mr. Hull,

Thank you. Do I understand you correctly to say that the firing pin fall closes the action completely if it were not already in battery? If so, that's an excellent design concept!

Answer: ---- Darren Hull <darren.hull
graphic_ampersand.gif
blaser.de wrote:

Completely correct. Please allow me to attach an image where you can see the position of the R93 lock-up when the firing-pin is level with the breech of the bolt-head. The lock-up is realized 100%.


Best Regards

Darren Hull

International Service
Blaser Jagdwaffen GmbH
Ziegelstadel 1
88316 Isny im Allg�u
Germany

Phone: 0049 (0)7562 702 159
Fax: 0049 (0)7562 702 148
e-mail: darren.hull@blaser.de



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
EMcC said:
The most important thing about the article is that at the moment they cannot determine whether it was a designer fault or a fault with reloaded ammunition.
Based on the millions of Blaser rifles sold I know where my money lies ;)
Click to expand...

I'll take that bet. £50 against Blaser's design of the R93? Why else did they completely redesign and retool and go to the R8?

Maybe read the link I posted earlier? http://www.africahunting.com/threads/safety-warning.14239/page-2

The sort of story in the opening post here is not unique, by any means.
 
megsjockey said:
I'll take that bet. £50 against Blaser's design of the R93? Why else did they completely redesign and retool and go to the R8?
Click to expand...

They didn't.. the R8 was manufactured alongside the R93, only recently has it been replaced by a newer version (An R8 with no removable mag)

Things move on, designs are refined, improved, simplified... usually to reduce manufacturing costs but also because that is how the world works... But I'll hand it to you... everyone loves a conspiracy theory!

The R8 was designed to satisfy those who wanted a removable magazine (I, like many others, wouldn't buy a rifle that didn't have one)

All rifles will blow up in one way or another under the right circumstances, Blasers, by all accounts seem far less susceptible than other marques!
 
Last edited:
IN WW2 Russian forces apparently dropped off 8x57 ammo that was loaded with explosives instead of propellant. The 98's that blew up didn't have any bolts flying out the back.
Any rifle can and will blow up if things go awry for whatever reason. Blaser and every person involved in rifle design knows this and still Blaser designed an action that flies back into the face of the user when it ruptures. I think that is the issue. A problem that was actually resolved before 1900. The R93 is by design not safe or lacks of safety features. The Mauser brothers seemed way ahead many decades earlier.

I would not let my kids shoot a R93,
actually a company that designs and stands behind a design such as the R93 I would not trust any product.
edi
 
IN WW2 Russian forces apparently dropped off 8x57 ammo that was loaded with explosives instead of propellant. The 98's that blew up didn't have any bolts flying out the back.
Any rifle can and will blow up if things go awry for whatever reason. Blaser and every person involved in rifle design knows this and still Blaser designed an action that flies back into the face of the user when it ruptures. I think that is the issue. A problem that was actually resolved before 1900. The R93 is by design not safe or lacks of safety features. The Mauser brothers seemed way ahead many decades earlier.

I would not let my kids shoot a R93,
actually a company that designs and stands behind a design such as the R93 I would not trust any product.
edi
Click to expand...

Would like to see real evidence for that bit of heresay. It sounds like the usual 'i read it on the net so it must be true' crap.
 
ejg said:
IN WW2 Russian forces apparently dropped off 8x57 ammo that was loaded with explosives instead of propellant. The 98's that blew up didn't have any bolts flying out the back.
Any rifle can and will blow up if things go awry for whatever reason. Blaser and every person involved in rifle design knows this and still Blaser designed an action that flies back into the face of the user when it ruptures. I think that is the issue. A problem that was actually resolved before 1900. The R93 is by design not safe or lacks of safety features. The Mauser brothers seemed way ahead many decades earlier.

I would not let my kids shoot a R93,
actually a company that designs and stands behind a design such as the R93 I would not trust any product.
edi
Click to expand...

:zzz:

I guess now we've got the excitement of the election out of the way it was inevitable that the Blaser threads would return ;)
 
I am not a Blaser detractor, however i would be interested to see what gunsmiths like Baldie, Dasherman, Steve Kershaw, Callum Ferguson etc think of the design. Even off the record comments would be interesting.
I know that my riflesmith Ragnar Hansen will not work on Blasers Even to the point of not threading for moderators.
 
As an engenear, having looked at the design drawings referanced on page one of this thread I simply wouldn't buy one.

I dont need any further coment from any one.

Its a poor design and the failure mode is catastrophic

The R8 is a significantly better design

ATB

Chasey
 
Chasey said:
As an engenear, having looked at the design drawings referanced on page one of this thread I simply wouldn't buy one.

I dont need any further coment from any one.

Its a poor design and the failure mode is catastrophic

The R8 is a significantly better design

ATB

Chasey
Click to expand...

Well being able to spell engineer might have made your opinion a little more viable.;)

I think that people read the poop with that article and assume the guy knows what he is talking about. He is simply incorrect;

"There is nothing to prevent them from sliding down that slope, except for that thin spring blade connecting them to their common sleeve."

Look at the drawing again, imagine the direction of bolt thrust and re-read that sentence, real engineers will spot the flaw in his argument.

Just coz you read it on the net don't mean it is true, this article is good because he supplies the evidence that shoots him in the foot.
 
Sauer90 said:
Well being able to spell engineer might have made your opinion a little more viable.;)

I think that people read the poop with that article and assume the guy knows what he is talking about. He is simply incorrect;

"There is nothing to prevent them from sliding down that slope, except for that thin spring blade connecting them to their common sleeve."

Look at the drawing again, imagine the direction of bolt thrust and re-read that sentence, real engineers will spot the flaw in his argument.

Just coz you read it on the net don't mean it is true, this article is good because he supplies the evidence that shoots him in the foot.
Click to expand...


I was a prototype engenear doing one off parts for British Aerospace Ham Common in Richmond. I qualified as a precision toolmaker with Phillips in 1984 after my aprentaship

I am also dyslexic

ATB

Chasey
 
Last edited:
Sauer90 said:
Well being able to spell engineer might have made your opinion a little more viable.;)

I think that people read the poop with that article and assume the guy knows what he is talking about. He is simply incorrect;

"There is nothing to prevent them from sliding down that slope, except for that thin spring blade connecting them to their common sleeve."

Look at the drawing again, imagine the direction of bolt thrust and re-read that sentence, real engineers will spot the flaw in his argument.

Just coz you read it on the net don't mean it is true, this article is good because he supplies the evidence that shoots him in the foot.
Click to expand...

Why don't you address the actual argument the man put forward?

Under 'thrust' from a normal firing of a cartridge the 'back-thrust' will indeed tend to lock the 'finger' ends in place. However, what the writer actually asserted was, with regard to the event of a case rupturing, where will the escaping gasses go and what will they tend to do? More to the point, in the photographs he posts, in addition to the design schematics, he shows us exactly what happens, first to the bolt head and then the action and finally to all those guys faces and thumbs hanging in bits that needed put back together again in hospital.
 
OK I have had another good look at the drawings and I still feel the R93 design is poor with inadiquate posative / fail safe lock on the collett locking sleive

The nature of the failures backs up this thieory with the mechenisum sliding backwards into the face of the shooter rather than exploading and leaving the locking mechinisum locked in place.

When we designed progression tooling we were sometimes working with 1000 ton presses I made the progresion tool for the left hand window winding arm for the Vaxhaul Cavalear in about 1980. That was a 4 ton multi stage tool going in a 1000 ton press.

We designed in shear planes for failure of die blocks so if there was a sheet feed jam and a stripper failure the dies would expload in a safe and predictable way, not into the face of the press opporator.

This to me is the biggest failing in the design. The failure mode is catastrophic.


ATB

Chasey
 
Last edited:
Just in case anyone is under the impression that only Blasers have problems: Firearms Recalls - Ammunition Recalls - The Gun Guy

or: http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/safet...567/07&exclude_search_term=0&search_year=2007

So you might also want to worry if you own a Tikka, Sako, Howa, Weatherby, Remington......



I do wonder what the point of these threads really is?

Do the protagonists think that their dire warnings will somehow change things, cause the rifle owners to "see the light", ditch their rifles, and go on to lead happy and fulfilled lives?

Do the defenders think that they will be able to change the opinions of the protagonists?

Let's face it, neither seems very likely.

Aren't there more important things to worry about?

Or is it just a way of driving up post counts? ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Blaser R93 Stock Question
Replies
4
Views
227
blaserhunter88
B
270 BA
Replies
0
Views
173
Grannysmith
G
25-06 lead free
2
Replies
26
Views
1K
J.L.
J
Blaser Bolts difference
2
Replies
24
Views
1K
adi
A
Let's talk spare barrels for Blaser K95.
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
JohnCZ
JohnCZ
Braces Airgun Masters
Back
Top