New NE Deer Night Shooting Licence England/Wales (CL55)

I don't think that the new night license being introduced is a bad starting point and is a good middle ground. There are numerous ways people can become eligible.
I think some people would only be happy if night shooting was un restricted and unlicensed. The idea of the licence is that it is controlled.

monarman said:

Notifying the police is not a bad thing... save alot of hassle if someone thinks there's poaching going on or if indeed there's a local who doesn't agree with deer being shot and wants to cause hassle.
Notifying neighbours... depends on where you're shooting, horses or lther livestock may need to be brought in as they aren't used to shots at night and can spook, Neighbours won't call the police thinking there are poachers, if shooting is done near any form of industrial site it's best to let security know..
People need to realise that it's not the same as going out after foxes... you're under a license.

As for high end thermal use only... obvious isn't it?? .. NE aren't going to risk non target species being shot due to lack of definition by poorer quality thermals, And we owe it to what we shoot at to make sure the point of aim is spot on.
Although this point was never mentioned on the initial dmq night shooting courses so I'm assuming it will be in future...

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I don't see any difference in the day really. People who are anti and after going to stir up problems are more likely to do it when they're awake imho. Probably why foxing with rifles largely floats under the Facebook antis types radars for the most part.

The kind of people who want to object to deer hunting are at least as likely to object to fox hunting I would suggest.

Same with neighbours in the day. That's just part of managing the situation like normal. It don't get why that needs to be mentioned in the night license when it isn't a night specific problem. Gun shots are loud..... The noise levels are going to be pretty similar to a centre fire foxing rifle in most cases. (A lot of people shoot 243 on foxes).


No one is saying you shouldn't correctly identify the target but that's your responsibility at any time of the day. It's on you to make that happen...

nf-fuse said:

Condition 7: notify others
- Before taking action under the licence you must:

- inform the local police and relevant firearms licensing authority at least 24 hours before any night shooting

- notify the owners or occupiers of adjoining land in advance if it is reasonable to conclude that the use of this land will be affected or disturbed by night shooting.

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Talk about jumping through hoops!! as said its like all of a sudden going out in the dark with a rifle is a completely new concept, god knows how we manage to identify and shoot foxes and ither quarry without upsetting the neighbours, can you imagine that palaver going out foxing.
Come to think of it this could set a precedent and we could all end up having to to it across the board regardless of quarry.
Who actually makes the decisions on this, is it a board or individual?

I've been shooting fallow does under night licence for the last 3 seasons, on foot with sticks, and in my view, the job is very different from foxing or badger cull. The backstop requirement is massively different and, in a lot of situations on my land, is not easy to determine. The deer are usually not in the same places that they are when shooting at daytimes, so there is not always the daylight experience of backstop to remember and draw upon. You find yourself needing to take shots in places you would never normally be in or see deer in.

As for thermal, I'm not convinced it is the right device to have on the rifle. There have been quite a few occasions when the thermal spotter shows plenty of safe ground behind the deer, and then go onto the sticks, on with NV/illuminator and there is just no way that taking a shot would be a good idea. What looked in the thermal as good ground, actually was a long downward slope, just off parallel to line of sight, followed by rising ground maybe 300m away. But it would have been fine with a fox/badger because they're so much lower, ie backstop is literally just behind them, and the ricochet risk negligible by comparison.

The standard conditions have always required notification of the police and firearms licensing. One email at the start of the season is all it takes. Sometimes the FEO has wanted to put a condition on my FAC, sometimes not. Personally I think it's good to get the condition on the FAC because then there is a whole raft of hassle avoided if you're stopped with warm carcasses at 3am. As for neighbours - I've never thought it reasonable to conclude that they will be affected or disturbed. The notification thing is just not a problem.

The only thing that is a demanding change from the previous licensing is being expected to complete a report after every outing, rather than collate all the info on an xls at the end of the season. But maybe, as commented above, they want to get information about how much the licence is being used - and, possibly, it all might be information that would work in our favour. So, it's annoying but I'll be up for it, just to keep chipping away.

With the thermal sensor minimum requirement does that mean NV scopes are ruled out as a viable option?

KentCountryGent said:

With the thermal sensor minimum requirement does that mean NV scopes are ruled out as a viable option?

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No they aren't ruled out. Gen 2 or 3 are allowed.

I don't know what gen 2 or 3 is defined as tbh. I'm assuming stuff like alpexs and Zulus are allowed.

6x40 conventional glass with a 1500 lumen torch is allowed. Minimum. Obviously bigger lenses and stronger lights are fine.

nf-fuse said:

No they aren't ruled out. Gen 2 or 3 are allowed.

I don't know what gen 2 or 3 is defined as tbh. I'm assuming stuff like alpexs and Zulus are allowed.

6x40 conventional glass with a 1500 lumen torch is allowed. Minimum. Obviously bigger lenses and stronger lights are fine.

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Thanks - I'm assuming then that a common setup used for foxing such as an NV scope like the Alpex 4K or Pulsar C50 paired with a thermal spotter (not 640 necessarily) would be permitted in theory.

KentCountryGent said:

Thanks - I'm assuming then that a common setup used for foxing such as an NV scope like the Alpex 4K or Pulsar C50 paired with a thermal spotter (not 640 necessarily) would be permitted in theory.

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I don't think the spotter comes in to it for this license.

I think the NV is fine.

nf-fuse said:

No they aren't ruled out. Gen 2 or 3 are allowed.

I don't know what gen 2 or 3 is defined as tbh. I'm assuming stuff like alpexs and Zulus are allowed.

6x40 conventional glass with a 1500 lumen torch is allowed. Minimum. Obviously bigger lenses and stronger lights are fine.

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Condition 9: Also states "comparable digital night vision sight with IR illumination"

wytonpjs said:

Coming hard on the heels of the Government's publication of it's new deer policy, I'm surprised no-one else has commented on yesterday's publication of new statutory licensing for night shooting of deer in England/Wales. It's breaking in the BASC press but full details are here:

Licence to kill deer at night by shooting (CL55)

www.gov.uk

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Please see to say that Doctor Rodney Calvert from Natural England will be doing a talk on the British Deer Society stage at 10.00 am at the Stalking Show on Saturday 11th April the title of his talk ‘Deer Management and Legislation: a Licencing Perspective’ , the talk will be followed by a short Q & A.Hope this helps everybody.

The license conditions doesn't state you must inform the police EVERYTIME you visit a site, just that you do so at minimum of 24hours prior.

So what I will do is simply email the police once the site has been approved by NE to say for the remainder of the season I will be night shooting deer. Simples.

Additionally "been actively controlling deer in the last 3 years".... well that's completely open to interpretation! So you've shot 1 deer in the last 3 years? You've shouted at them on the ground to scare them away? Is that sufficient?

Alastair Boston said:

Please see to say that Doctor Rodney Calvert from Natural England will be doing a talk on the British Deer Society stage at 10.00 am at the Stalking Show on Saturday 11th April the title of his talk ‘Deer Management and Legislation: a Licencing Perspective’ , the talk will be followed by a short Q & A.Hope this helps everybody.

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Subject to US/Israel/Iran/et al, I sadly won't be at the Stalking Show this year. Would be good for this to be video and hosted on FE/BDS/BASC websites please Alastair

wytonpjs said:

Subject to US/Israel/Iran/et al, I sadly won't be at the Stalking Show this year. Would be good for this to be video and hosted on FE/BDS/BASC websites please Alastair

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wytonpjs said:

Subject to US/Israel/Iran/et al, I sadly won't be at the Stalking Show this year. Would be good for this to be video and hosted on FE/BDS/BASC websites please Alastair

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I can try,but I can't promise sorry.We hope soon to release the video from some of the talks at the last deer conference held by the Forestry Commission and partners in Hampshire October 2024. Rodney gave a very insightful talk there,I will keep you all posted.

All this will do is flood the market and drop the carcass price at the game dealer!

And also encourage people that don’t have the experience to do so with equipment that now is a freely available on the open market I.e thermal and day night digital scopes, that will cause suffering animal welfare issues.

I’ve tracked enough deer wounded shot under daylight conditions let alone at night!

Alastair Boston said:

I can try,but I can't promise sorry.We hope soon to release the video from some of the talks at the last deer conference held by the Forestry Commission and partners in Hampshire October 2024. Rodney gave a very insightful talk there,I will keep you all posted.

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Thank you Alastair that will be very useful. People seem to be being led to misinterpreted the changes. Rather than realising that licenses will be simpler to issue they're thinking that they're going to be given out to whoever fancies one. As I read it the justification requirements are the same as previously, nothing there has changed.
What I think needs clarification at this point is that when a piece of ground is submitted there will need to be a positive confirmation process before night shooting can commence on it. It could be interpreted currently that once you add a piece of ground you're good to go by self diagnosis.
Imbsure this will all be clarified in due course but as usual we must account for the lowest common sense denominations!

Munty_Hunter said:

Thank you Alastair that will be very useful. People seem to be being led to misinterpreted the changes. Rather than realising that licenses will be simpler to issue they're thinking that they're going to be given out to whoever fancies one. As I read it the justification requirements are the same as previously, nothing there has changed.
What I think needs clarification at this point is that when a piece of ground is submitted there will need to be a positive confirmation process before night shooting can commence on it. It could be interpreted currently that once you add a piece of ground you're good to go by self diagnosis.
Imbsure this will all be clarified in due course but as usual we must account for the lowest common sense denominations!

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The information on the gov.uk website doesn't say anything about submitting evidence or having the land assessed. It just says you need to register it and wait 5 days.

nf-fuse said:

The information on the gov.uk website doesn't say anything about submitting evidence or having the land assessed. It just says you need to register it and wait 5 days.

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The email reply from notifying land states "The following site has been registered. You must wait 5 working days from the date of this email before commencing any licensed action on this site. This is to allow time for Natural England to contact you, should we have any queries."

Its all rubbish , it should be the same as shooting foxes and rabbits ....no licence or Night Shooting Certificates required.

Why are deer any different?

Nickb said:

Its all rubbish , it should be the same as shooting foxes and rabbits ....no licence or Night Shooting Certificates required.

Why are deer any different?

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Not sporting old boy

Mr P Jones has released a fairly good summary on CL55 - yes yes I know it's Mr Jones but bare with
He covers the all important topic of insurence, I was waiting on the punchline that he offers it but I don't think so.

QUESTION - I've read on here and in PJ's vid that the Hunting Academy NSC is or can be online only, is that true? No practical to pass?