We shot a Fallow doe this morning from a large herd (143) who looked and acted very normal. On gralloching, the foetus sack was large but just contained three fatty mushroom looking lumps. The mesenteric lymph nodes and the bronchial ones were swollen. I have never ever seen lungs in this condition in my stalking life either. There was no adhesion to ribs and no lumps visible on the lungs. Carcase disposed of
Strange Doe
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Rob-E
Well-Known Member
To me the lungs look bruised, that in itself wouldn’t cause me too much concern. As this occurs when you shoot them, blood pools in them etc…
It could also be something like pneumonia as this would likely cause the swollen bronchial however I’m unsure if it would hit the messenteric as well.
The swollen messenteric and bronchial together would however concern me.
I assume all others were ok?
It could also be something like pneumonia as this would likely cause the swollen bronchial however I’m unsure if it would hit the messenteric as well.
The swollen messenteric and bronchial together would however concern me.
I assume all others were ok?
Never had a problem like this in any other deer on the place. She was head shot all others ok. Have never seen one lung so dark snd the other mottled in the big number of deer I have shot in nearly 70 years. Still there's always one isn't there.
Lungs look pretty normal to me, if head shot. Head shooting doesn't allow the carcass to drain of blood, as it would if heart/lung shot, so blood is retained in the lungs - I expect the lung with more blood was the side it was lying on when it expired. Was it a while between shooting and evisceration?
Maybe there is a bit of pneumonia in the smaller lobes, hard to tell from the photos. This may cause a little swelling of the associated lymph nodes, but if no pus/abscess, nothing to be concerned about.
The '3 fatty mushrooms' in the placenta sound like cotyledons (no photos), which transmit blood, oxygen & nutrients between the mother and foetus. These are normal - you've never witnessed these before?
Why did you dispose of the carcass?
1.Seen a lot of headshot beasts, but nothing like this.
2. Evicerated within 15 minutes.
3. No foetus just a lot of fluid and the lumps were not pleasant growths to view. No I have never witnessed them in a barren beast.
4. If I have a suspect carcase it goes in the incinerator why do you ask? I suspected pneumonia.
2. Evicerated within 15 minutes.
3. No foetus just a lot of fluid and the lumps were not pleasant growths to view. No I have never witnessed them in a barren beast.
4. If I have a suspect carcase it goes in the incinerator why do you ask? I suspected pneumonia.
Brad93
Well-Known Member
If in doubt, why risk it.
You've done the correct thing in documenting your findings and seeking advice from others on possible causation.
It's a shame to see a carcass go to the incinerator, however, it would be more concerning to see a pathogen found once at the AGHE, or worse, further down the line.
Good work OP
You've done the correct thing in documenting your findings and seeking advice from others on possible causation.
It's a shame to see a carcass go to the incinerator, however, it would be more concerning to see a pathogen found once at the AGHE, or worse, further down the line.
Good work OP
Pneumonia (no septic indications) alone is not a reason to condemn a carcass.
You please yourself what you think. I decide what I do with anything I determine to be dodgy. End of story.
Any photos of the lumps or any smell? Colour? Size? Wonder if aborted foetal material, which could fit with an infectious cause (e.g. Toxoplasma, Neospora).
Multiple enlarged lymph nodes in different systems would be enough for me to decide to condemn- suggests a systemic issue.
Of course.
Best to err on the side of caution.
Just saying what would happen in the wider context of the red meat industry for other viewers of this thread, given your indications.
Sika-Hunter
Well-Known Member
I think after 70 years of shooting deer you are more than qualified to make the correct decision when something that just doesn't look quite right but its a breath of fresh air to see someone with you experience still looking for a helpful advice on strange findings. Pneumonia would be my guess but with raised abnormal lymph nodes and possible foetus absorption you certain done the right thing.
We have to keep going on the does unfortunately into the latter stages of pregnancy. I dont like it but we have far too many about. We generally just handle the foetus to ascertain how advanced it is but this one was just fluid and growths and removed first in a suspended gralloch. The lungs etc were looked at when she was empty.
A shame you didn't take a photo of the uterus and expand on that, potentially of more interest than the lungs.
We also keep culling until the end of the season. Fallow coming together to make large herds makes it very difficult to reduce the numbers; shoot 1, maybe 2 and they all disappear across the fields.
We have numerous groups of 15 - 25 and 1 herd of around 100, just 2/3 the size of yours! Too misty last Friday to take a photo or video, unfortunately.
Sounds like normal cotyledons in the reproductive tract. They are quite large and unpleasant looking in a fallow at this stage of gestation. Abscence of a foetus could indicate recent foetal loss due to toxoplasmosis infection (very common), which would also further enlarge the cotyledons, and may account for some enlarged nodes (but I don't know about that for sure).
Lungs don't look too bad to me. Blood pooling, hydrostatic shock, previous pneumonia, but nothing in those lungs that screams out a major warning to me.
Lungs don't look too bad to me. Blood pooling, hydrostatic shock, previous pneumonia, but nothing in those lungs that screams out a major warning to me.
Absolutely this ^^^ 100%
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