Holts Sealed Bid overpriced ???

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HI all,

Was just having a browse and built a cheeky spreadsheet to add up the commission and vat of on few lots and all of sudden feels not quiet the bargain you first think it is. I have brought a couple of items in the past from them. Was curious if it just me or if you guys felt the same.

Also wish at least once a year they would put some of the sealed bid guns in a normal auction so could grab a bargain or too.

Of course i might just be getting old and cranky.

Cheers
 
Auctions can be used to gull poorly informed bargain hunters. Buyer's duty to do due diligence but at the same time, seeking to fool people doesn't sit right.
 
I have seen a lot of the rifles that go to sealed bid before it’s sent there. A lot, I’d say, is hardly fit for sale to even start with. But they do pretty pictures and some nice descriptions, avoiding all the negatives… cough cough
 
I've had some bargains in the past. Bought one thousand 16 bore cartridges 28 gram #6 in 70mm length for £180 including commission in the last Sealed Bid. But remember that often it is NOT Holt's that set the reserve price but the seller. And if that price is unrealistic there is little Holt's staff can do if the seller won't budge on lowering that reserve price.
 
If you want to buy things at an auction at very least get a decent condition report. Better still go and visit and spend time looking at things closely. If you have no clue then ask the stupid questions, or at least find a friend who really understands guns. Or find a good rfd who will give you good advice, but you might have to pay for it.

With anything you do buy, factor in a decent service into the cost.

Then taking into account the commissions and any VAT carefully consider what you are will to pay to acquire the gun and the then cost for a good service.

Bear in mind that if the gun fits you well and is just what you are looking for you might not find another like it.

Also have a good think about what somebody else will be prepared to pay for it.

And with the nature of passions, somebody may be prepared to pay substantially more than you for a particular item.

Or everyone else considers that you are way over bidding.

Doesn’t really matter. Bid up to what you are willing to or can afford to pay. If you win fantastic, if not then someone else has paid silly money.

If you don’t want to pay silly money at auctions then don’t bid silly money. But if others are prepared to pay such sums, well that’s markets working properly and the sellers will be delighted.
 
Condition Reports are honest.

I was considering bidding on a true left handed 16 bore in the sealed bid in December 2025. Requested a condition report - copied below. Gun is shootable, but it would need quite a bit of work gor it to nice - vice marks on action etc. A left handed action is nice for a lefty. I suppose £1500 to £2000 all in if this was in nice good condition would be the correct sort of money.

This sort of gun is either a £300 and shoot the hell out of it, or potentially a basis for a rebuild. I considered a cheeky bid. It was Unsold in the last auction.

S1225 December 2025 Sealed Bid, 11/12/2025, Venue: Norfolk

Lot No. 6533

H.W. BARFORD & CO. LEFT-HANDED 16-BORE BOXLOCK EJECTOR, serial no. 73775, circa 1945, 28in. nitro reproved barrels, rib engraved 'H.W. BARFORD & CO. COVENTRY.', 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. imp. cyl. and 1/2 choke, treble-grip action, left-hand toplever, automatic safety, border and acanthus scroll engraving, 14 3/4in. stock, weight 6lb. 1oz.
Estimate: £300-500

CONDITION:
.651+ .663+ 24 21

barrels externally with some fading to reblue (and inherent loss of definition to rib inscription), some light rust spotting and losses to finish at muzzles and where fore-end meets, partially repaired dent to right barrel, internally with some light marking and minor pits, fairly dull to ring, slight movement on action and slightly off face. Action with some scars and staining to face, some fairly heavy vice marks from action bar being squeezed to tighten, some loss of crispness to engraving, slight overbite mark to floorplate, safety and ejectors operate ok with snapcaps. Woodwork with average light surface knocks and bruises. stock possible replacement.
open
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enfieldspares said:
I've had some bargains in the past. Bought one thousand 16 bore cartridges 28 gram #6 in 70mm length for £180 including commission in the last Sealed Bid. But remember that often it is NOT Holt's that set the reserve price but the seller. And if that price is unrealistic there is little Holt's staff can do if the seller won't budge on lowering that reserve price.
Click to expand...
Yes but the point is, in a live auction the auctioneer will try to start the lot at their low estimate & if it doesn’t he will reduce the price till he gets a bid & then it starts to go. If the final bid doesn't exceed the reserve the seller has placed then the item is only ‘provisional’ or remains unsold.

With Holts sealed bid you cannot place a bid that is below the low estimate, end of, they won’t accept it.
 
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eBay has completely democratised the auction world. Not long ago, gun auctions were mainly the hunting ground of the trade looking for stock. Now everyday buyers pile in, often telling dealers, “You want how much? I saw one go for £50 at auction.”

But the reality is very different. Even with condition reports and a viewing, you cannot return an item if it develops a fault later, and you certainly can’t go back to Holts months down the line asking them to put something right.

If you walk into an auction, you need to do so with your eyes open — to the fees, the risks, and the fact that once the hammer falls, the item (and any problems it comes with) is yours.

The alternative is buying from the trade, where you get support, accountability, and after‑sales service. We lose our local gunshops at our peril.
 
To be fair to Holts they have a calculator which will show you the total cost at your maximum bid, or if you put in your maximum amount where to stop bidding.

David.
 
375win said:
eBay has completely democratised the auction world. Not long ago, gun auctions were mainly the hunting ground of the trade looking for stock. Now everyday buyers pile in, often telling dealers, “You want how much? I saw one go for £50 at auction.”

But the reality is very different. Even with condition reports and a viewing, you cannot return an item if it develops a fault later, and you certainly can’t go back to Holts months down the line asking them to put something right.

If you walk into an auction, you need to do so with your eyes open — to the fees, the risks, and the fact that once the hammer falls, the item (and any problems it comes with) is yours.

The alternative is buying from the trade, where you get support, accountability, and after‑sales service. We lose our local gunshops at our peril.
Click to expand...
Flip side of that is that Auctions make it very clear that guns are bought as seen. There is a basic function check, barrels measured but that’s it. They do recommend that a gun is given a good service prior to being used. And that’s the job for the local gunsmith.

With a good gunshop / gunsmith you will get very good advice on and often the ability to try out the gun before you buy. It will often have had a strip down, parts all cleaned up, any faults rectified and provided with a warranty. I bought a Scottish built Sidelock ten years ago from Jason Abbot. He took me to the West Wycombe shooting ground and I must have shot 50 cartridges through it at all sorts of different targets and gave both sets of barrels a good workout. He then tweaked the stock for me and then sent it up to Scotland where I live. All included in the price along with a warranty.

About 3 years ago I picked up a somewhat tired little 16 bore Webley - similar to the gun I posted pictures on above - for about £250 off a friendly RFD. It was bought on basis of it is what it is, and it was destined for auction.

It worked, but bluing on barrels worn, one of the ejectors a bit sticky and the stock needed a good clean and refinish. I took it all apart, gave it good internal clean and removed 80 years of solidified oil gunk. Stock - again, light soapy water to take off the surface grime, raised the major dents and rebuilt the oil finish. Other than a good clean I have the barrels alone - they have honest wear from being carried.

I shot it for a while. I pretty much liked it, but I shoot left handed and it was cast right. Choke was full in left and half in the right.

So I took across to Graham McKinley at Dunbarton. He fitted the stock to me, opened up the chokes and gave it a once over. That cost £350. This little gun now shoots where I look and is deadly with a 2 1/2” steel cartridge.
 
Rubicon said:
Also wish at least once a year they would put some of the sealed bid guns in a normal auction so could grab a bargain or too
Click to expand...

As far as I know, that wouldn't work either.

The sealed bid (and their main auction from what I've seen) runs on they start at the low end of their estimate, and if it doesn't have any interest there, then it just doesn't sell...

Thought they'd at least entertain offers under, as some of their "values" seem high (and others seem wildly under...). But even for the handful of lots I tuned in to the main sale for, that just isn't done?
 
It really is you get what you pay for in the auctions
I’ve had a few good deals and some not so good same with a few mates
But as stated you really do have to pick your price and stick with it
There’s a few in this I would like but they seem over the top starting wise for what they are to me so not gonna bother on them the optics seem to be starting higher priced too in this one
 
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