Am i being unreasonable ? Am i too soft for fox shooting ?

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billy_boyle_2010

Well-Known Member
I do a bit of pest control for a few farmers when required.

One farmer has a small chicken farm. They are semi free range- having the run of 50m x 30m or so. There is some vague sort of fence- not a proper one- and a decent number of the chickens wander around the farm outside of the fence.

From time to time- he looses a few to a fox.

He lost a couple yesterday- and he wants me to come and shoot all foxes that I can call into his ground.

My problem is-

Where does his ethical responsibility to have a fox proof barrier end, and my responsibility to shoot them begin?

The fox didnt get into the coup- or the run- the chickens got out- as they do every day with ease and the fox is likely feeding young at the moment- and cant resist KFC easy pickings.

I dont particularly like fox shooting- they are just as sentient as deer and our lovely pet dogs- and they dont do anything more cruel than a terrier would in the same situation. But I understand needs must at times.

However- the thought of orphaning the cubs at this age really doesnt appeal. I dont think they will be able to survive alone at the moment- and shooting one parent will likely place pressure on the other to come to KFC even more frequently.

Their earth isnt on this chaps land. I dont know where it is in truth- but finding it wouldnt be easy. So dealing with the cubs having shot the parents would be difficult. I would also find it distasteful- theres not much difference between them and my puppy.

Ultimately - do i shoot 2 adult foxes, allow a number of cubs to gradually starve to death, for the sake of a few chickens - so the farmer doesnt have to build a proper fence.

Who else wrestles with this ? Is there an answer i havent considered ?

One option is i suppose is to shoot the foxes before they breed. Or give the permission up to someone who doesnt care what they orphan.

It doesn't help that every time I visit at least half my time is spent being talked at by the farmer who's so narcissistic and self absorbed I dont think he knows anything about me. I doubt he knows where I live or my surname.

The more I write this- the more I think im too soft for fox shooting 😞 it just seems a waste of life.
 
I’ve had similar regards rubbish fencing etc. I’ve told them straight they need to either make the place secure or accept losses to foxes

I still shoot them though.

I will add, I don’t really shoot anything now without a good reason, and life is too short to deal with arseholes

I’d walk. Or tell him you’ve decided you need paid for the pest control. That might change the situation
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
I do a bit of pest control for a few farmers when required.

One farmer has a small chicken farm. They are semi free range- having the run of 50m x 30m or so. There is some vague sort of fence- not a proper one- and a decent number of the chickens wander around the farm outside of the fence.

From time to time- he looses a few to a fox.

He lost a couple yesterday- and he wants me to come and shoot all foxes that I can call into his ground.

My problem is-

Where does his ethical responsibility to have a fox proof barrier end, and my responsibility to shoot them begin?

The fox didnt get into the coup- or the run- the chickens got out- as they do every day with ease and the fox is likely feeding young at the moment- and cant resist KFC easy pickings.

I dont particularly like fox shooting- they are just as sentient as deer and our lovely pet dogs- and they dont do anything more cruel than a terrier would in the same situation. But I understand needs must at times.

However- the thought of orphaning the cubs at this age really doesnt appeal. I dont think they will be able to survive alone at the moment- and shooting one parent will likely place pressure on the other to come to KFC even more frequently.

Their earth isnt on this chaps land. I dont know where it is in truth- but finding it wouldnt be easy. So dealing with the cubs having shot the parents would be difficult. I would also find it distasteful- theres not much difference between them and my puppy.

Ultimately - do i shoot 2 adult foxes, allow a number of cubs to gradually starve to death, for the sake of a few chickens - so the farmer doesnt have to build a proper fence.

Who else wrestles with this ? Is there an answer i havent considered ?

One option is i suppose is to shoot the foxes before they breed. Or give the permission up to someone who doesnt care what they orphan.

It doesn't help that every time I visit at least half my time is spent being talked at by the farmer who's so narcissistic and self absorbed I dont think he knows anything about me. I doubt he knows where I live or my surname.

The more I write this- the more I think im too soft for fox shooting 😞 it just seems a waste of life.
Click to expand...
If you want access to land for what ever your reasons the gate way is held open by the farmer!
No different to shooting a milky doe rabbit with kits to feed :eek: or pigeons nesting and feeding (pigeon milk) to the squabs.
What do you use the land for as you have a permission?

Simple, if it is not you thing then don't do it..

However when you say "I do a bit of pest control" you can only decide what you want out of the trade as that is what it is.

I shoot foxes/pigeons to gain the stalking.
 
Ive seen several cubs knocked over on the roads all about cat sized.
I would think they will find away to survive but may be using the farmers hens as easy meals.
The farmer needs to take better care of his live stock.
Charge him for your time, see if he ups his game
 
Apthorpe said:
If you don't enjoy shooting this chap's land, stop. You don't have any responsibility to do anything unless he's paying you. If you don't want to shoot his foxes, say so.
Soneone else may like to.
Click to expand...

Even if he was paying i wouldnt do it at this time of year. A get some free eggs if he has an excess but I give them away- the smell from the sheds and all the rats puts me off 😞

Rake Aboot said:
I’ve had similar regards rubbish fencing etc. I’ve told them straight they need to either make the place secure or accept losses to foxes

I still shoot them though.

I will add, I don’t really shoot anything now without a good reason, and life is too short to deal with arseholes

I’d walk. Or tell him you’ve decided you need paid for the pest control. That might change the situation
Click to expand...

This is the post i can most closely relate to. Hes not an arsehole. Just self absorbed. But its a good point- charging would def incentivise him to sort the fence out.

Tim.243 said:
If you want access to land for what ever your reasons the gate way is held open by the farmer!
No different to shooting a milky doe rabbit with kits to feed :eek: or pigeons nesting and feeding (pigeon milk) to the squabs.
What do you use the land for as you have a permission?

Simple, if it is not you thing then don't do it..

However when you say "I do a bit of pest control" you can only decide what you want out of the trade as that is what it is.

I shoot foxes/pigeons to gain the stalking.
Click to expand...

It is different to shooting a milky doe IMO because you cant distinguish milky does from other rabbits- and they can be milky at any time of year.

Foxes are rearing young for a few months only once a year.

Perhaps I am morally ccorrupable but if this chap had some stalking- i would provably be persuaded. Or at least more proactive in the fox mating season. Its just rats, a few troublesome birds and foxes. I do it out of loyalty really as it was one of my first perms.

Bo Diddley said:
Are you in Norfolk, Billy? If so, I'll happily come and shoot as many as he wants... save you the torment.
Click to expand...

How generous. Does the thought of orphaning cubs not bother you? Do you have dogs or other pets ?

shakey jake said:
Ive seen several cubs knocked over on the roads all about cat sized.
I would think they will find away to survive but may be using the farmers hens as easy meals.
The farmer needs to take better care of his live stock.
Charge him for your time, see if he ups his game
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm cat sized eh ? I guess its more a skill issue- are they hunting mice and voles atm or still eating worms ?
 
With respect, I'm not sure I really understand you're argument, I'm a professional pest controller for a living, alongside that I shoot for pleasure, I get paid to kill all sorts of things simply because people find them slightly annoying, not because they're actually doing damage? In your case they are doing damage ie killing his chickens, I think that either you find someone else to carry out the task, or get on with it. I can choose the jobs I do and don't do, and so can you?
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
Even if he was paying i wouldnt do it at this time of year. A get some free eggs if he has an excess but I give them away- the smell from the sheds and all the rats puts me off 😞



This is the post i can most closely relate to. Hes not an arsehole. Just self absorbed. But its a good point- charging would def incentivise him to sort the fence out.



It is different to shooting a milky doe IMO because you cant distinguish milky does from other rabbits- and they can be milky at any time of year.

Foxes are rearing young for a few months only once a year.

Perhaps I am morally ccorrupable but if this chap had some stalking- i would provably be persuaded. Or at least more proactive in the fox mating season. Its just rats, a few troublesome birds and foxes. I do it out of loyalty really as it was one of my first perms.



How generous. Does the thought of orphaning cubs not bother you? Do you have dogs or other pets ?



Hmmmmm cat sized eh ? I guess its more a skill issue- are they hunting mice and voles atm or still eating worms ?
Click to expand...
I don't have the issue (you do) however we stopped ferreting as soon as we found young so that was our gauge. You swerved the nesting pigeons part in my post as both feed their squabs and are often out finding food as the young need more food.

With respect just don't shoot them and you will soon be free of your hand wringing problem 🧛‍♀️
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
Even if he was paying i wouldnt do it at this time of year. A get some free eggs if he has an excess but I give them away- the smell from the sheds and all the rats puts me off 😞



This is the post i can most closely relate to. Hes not an arsehole. Just self absorbed. But its a good point- charging would def incentivise him to sort the fence out.



It is different to shooting a milky doe IMO because you cant distinguish milky does from other rabbits- and they can be milky at any time of year.

Foxes are rearing young for a few months only once a year.

Perhaps I am morally ccorrupable but if this chap had some stalking- i would provably be persuaded. Or at least more proactive in the fox mating season. Its just rats, a few troublesome birds and foxes. I do it out of loyalty really as it was one of my first perms.



How generous. Does the thought of orphaning cubs not bother you? Do you have dogs or other pets ?



Hmmmmm cat sized eh ? I guess its more a skill issue- are they hunting mice and voles atm or still eating worms ?
Click to expand...
Im really not a fan of these types of farms, dirty chicken shed with rats in. I would walk away from paid work on this type, no way would i do it for free. Let the fox have its dinner
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
How generous. Does the thought of orphaning cubs not bother you? Do you have dogs or other pets ?
Click to expand...
You obviously know diddly squat about the life cycle of red foxes in the UK. Every cub in the country will be capable of surviving regardless of the plight of their parents at this time of year.
I've known cubs that have survived on beetles, worms & carrion when they have been the size of kittens.
 
This time of year the cubs (or they are with me) will normally be out and about around the earth entrance learning the ropes.

If you shoot the dog and vixen they'll come out for a look eventually. Not much sport in it it, but pest control isn't about sport.

If the chickens are a source of income for the farmer, just consider its money out of his pocket. I'd not like someone coming taking ££££s out of my income during a night time raid 🙃
 
The last few days, I've been watching four cubs with the thermal on a cut hay field at the bottom of the garden, they are hunting for the voles & mice.
It's nice to observe, rather than reach for a gun. These few aren't my problem, I'm sure someone from the game syndicate will pitch up in a buggy and clear them all up one night.
 
If you are getting stalking permission from this farmer in return for 'pest control' then I would consider it disingenuous to refuse to shoot the foxes that are taking his chickens.
Sport is sport. Pest control is just that .. pest control. We are lucky that the two will often combine, but if a job has to be done then it has to be done. He who pays the piper calls the tune.
 
farrieral said:
This time of year the cubs (or they are with me) will normally be out and about around the earth entrance learning the ropes.

If you shoot the dog and vixen they'll come out for a look eventually. Not much sport in it it, but pest control isn't about sport.

If the chickens are a source of income for the farmer, just consider its money out of his pocket. I'd not like someone coming taking ££££s out of my income during a night time raid 🙃
Click to expand...
I shot on request first a vixen then a second bolted from the den, then shot 5 cubs then the one that came back for a look. Big stinking pile in a few days :tiphat:
 
With respect.
I think you should tell the landowner to find someone else to do the pest control.

The rats need to be shot, it doesn't mean you have to go and collect all the dead up.
I leave them where they fall and the foxes come through the yard at night and collect them.

As regards the foxes, if you didn't sort them out in the winter as mating season was starting, you'll pay the price for it now.

All the cubs will be active now and on their own hunting and there is nothing worse than a young fox that is not street wise.
They are a pain in the arse and cause more problems than a 3 year old adult.

We have cage traps set around the hen houses all year round and catch steady throughout the year but I still have to shoot the hen house ground weekly and average 2 a week.

If you provide a service to the farmer they will recommend you to the farmers on interconnected land and you'll soon have a couple of thousand acres of shooting for deer.....if you can handle the gralloch.and butchering, if not give it up now along with the rats and foxes.
 
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