Am i being unreasonable ? Am i too soft for fox shooting ?

billy_boyle_2010 · Sunday at 9:19 PM

Smellydog said:
You don't know fox's and are comparing them to pets or domesticated animals.
You don't understand their social structure.
You also don't know the tenacity of cubs and their ability to survive. They have an abundance of food at their disposal at this time of year.
As for the land owner, he's a lazy arse. You don't need folk like that.

I am comparing them to all animals of a broadly similar intelligence.

You dont know whether I understand their social structure or not. If I shoot the adults in the area (including any relatives of the cubs)- they will have a hard time.

Indeed there is an abundance of food- if they know how to hunt it...... If they were born a little later than average- I do not know if they would survive, or have a slow unpleasant decline. Do you *know* they would all survive ? Do you *know* how old they are ? A couple of weeks younger than average and I think it would make a real difference.

Cranborne · Sunday at 9:33 PM

Being allowed to shoot on someone's land is a privilege and you should follow the owner's wishes.....if not, there are plenty of others who will be only too pleased to take your place.

Cyres · Sunday at 9:38 PM

Yes. Chance of finding earth minimal.

Cubs pretty big now and nigh on self sufficient. If you shoot the dog and Vixen odds on there will be non breeding foxs visiting the earth which will feed the cubs.
Secret is to be hard on foxs first 3 months of the year.
As to dealing with the farmer just tell him you need to be out on the job not chatting. Also sound like you need to be making regular visits to get a handle on the problem.
I posted on here last month an issue I was asked to resolve. Small holder with small flock and they use a 4 ft electric net fence in the paddock. Anyway took 3 visits to shoot the small Vixen which was the culprit. No visits seen.
I have only seen 3 cubs this year on all of my perms. 1 left.
Recently I have shot at least 6 dry vixens. I haven't a clue where they have come from.
D

Smellydog · Sunday at 9:49 PM

billy_boyle_2010 said:
I am comparing them to all animals of a broadly similar intelligence.

You dont know whether I understand their social structure or not. If I shoot the adults in the area (including any relatives of the cubs)- they will have a hard time.

Indeed there is an abundance of food- if they know how to hunt it...... If they were born a little later than average- I do not know if they would survive, or have a slow unpleasant decline. Do you *know* they would all survive ? Do you *know* how old they are ? A couple of weeks younger than average and I think it would make a real difference.

Can you if not already join a target shooting club?
It clearly bugs you.
Re intelligence, a rival vixen may just simply kill the hypothetical cubs anyway. They aren't intelligent as we, they act on instincts.
Hormones drive their breeding, not family planning.

Bowland blades · Sunday at 9:59 PM

billy_boyle_2010 said:
I do a bit of pest control for a few farmers when required.

One farmer has a small chicken farm. They are semi free range- having the run of 50m x 30m or so. There is some vague sort of fence- not a proper one- and a decent number of the chickens wander around the farm outside of the fence.

From time to time- he looses a few to a fox.

He lost a couple yesterday- and he wants me to come and shoot all foxes that I can call into his ground.

My problem is-

Where does his ethical responsibility to have a fox proof barrier end, and my responsibility to shoot them begin?

The fox didnt get into the coup- or the run- the chickens got out- as they do every day with ease and the fox is likely feeding young at the moment- and cant resist KFC easy pickings.

I dont particularly like fox shooting- they are just as sentient as deer and our lovely pet dogs- and they dont do anything more cruel than a terrier would in the same situation. But I understand needs must at times.

However- the thought of orphaning the cubs at this age really doesnt appeal. I dont think they will be able to survive alone at the moment- and shooting one parent will likely place pressure on the other to come to KFC even more frequently.

Their earth isnt on this chaps land. I dont know where it is in truth- but finding it wouldnt be easy. So dealing with the cubs having shot the parents would be difficult. I would also find it distasteful- theres not much difference between them and my puppy.

Ultimately - do i shoot 2 adult foxes, allow a number of cubs to gradually starve to death, for the sake of a few chickens - so the farmer doesnt have to build a proper fence.

Who else wrestles with this ? Is there an answer i havent considered ?

One option is i suppose is to shoot the foxes before they breed. Or give the permission up to someone who doesnt care what they orphan.

It doesn't help that every time I visit at least half my time is spent being talked at by the farmer who's so narcissistic and self absorbed I dont think he knows anything about me. I doubt he knows where I live or my surname.

The more I write this- the more I think im too soft for fox shooting it just seems a waste of life.

Did you know that a Fox Cub will be picked up by the dog who will place them with one of his vixens they are far from strangers ? Seen it a few times! No farm fence or coop etc will Keep hungry foxes out 100% . In the wild the Fox rarely take just one hen , they kill the lot ! Man has tried to get rid of foxes from farmland for ever and a day . Mange and RTAs has likely killed more Foxes than a man with a gun
Still i don't go mad killing foxes where they are not doing any harm at all but that's a rare place ! BTW how many Farms can make their fences Fox Proof ? None i recon ! They can Dig under or even climb tall fences 6ft or more if motivated

HallyButt · Sunday at 10:12 PM

Do what makes you happy, life is to short to me miserable… One of my farmers has no concept of or interest in Fox cub considerations, deer seasons or lack thereof

BenBhoy · Sunday at 11:39 PM

The other thing to think on, yes they're taking hens, but they'll also take red list ground nesters. En route to their chicken feast, if they stumble on nesting partridge fox isn't going to pass it up because it wants chicken tonight! Yeah is only doing what comes naturally. Equally, as a Countryman, were doing what comes naturally controlling them during nesting season. You kinda have to choose a side; ground nesters vs predators.... im on team perdix!!

Am i being unreasonable ? Am i too soft for fox shooting ?

billy_boyle_2010

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Cranborne

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Cyres

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Smellydog

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Bowland blades

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HallyButt

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BenBhoy

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