12 or 20

[6pt-sika]

I've got a 20, it's nice and pointable but not to heavy.

Mines a browning 725 with 32" barrels.

Used gamebore black golds 28 gram 6 for pretty much everything and I can happily shoot out to 40 yards if needed.

My outright favourite gun however is my 28 bore which is even lighter and shoots 21 gram 6 happily

We had a 725 32” 28 gauge in the shop a year or two ago for a good cleaning . That little gun felt some kinda good ! Almost as nice as a friends Perazzi MX28 32” . Have another friend that has a Krieghoff K-20 2 barrel set 20 and 28 both 32” and that one to me feels nice in the hands and easy to hit with .

 

[enfieldspares]

and when that's the case how many choose the 20 ? how many none funded comp shooter use one ?

Or is it maybe because 12 bore cartridges are cheaper?

 

[Bowland blades]

Or is it maybe because 12 bore cartridges are cheaper?

cheaper and better , top clay shooters dont buy their ammo or for that matter their guns . If a 20 was better for that task they would all switch to one .

 

[Bowland blades]

The "effective lethality" of any shotgun is a product of pattern density and shot-size much more than load weight.

Choked appropriately you will notice no difference in killing ability between 12b and 20b.

It seems nowadays that the go-to loading for 20b game cartridges is 26-28g (and a few even heavier), the upper end of which (28g) is exactly what I have been shooting through my 12's for as many years as I can remember and I have NEVER struggled through "lack of cartridge" on high birds. The vast majority of game shooters nowadays would rather up their payload than properly pattern their guns, hence the old "oooh, you'll need at least 36g of #4's on this one mate"...invariably you do not....

All talk of how many competition clay-shooters use 20's is largely irrelevant as the OP was quite specific about wanting it for game days.

20 most certainly hasn't got the killing ability of a 12 and a 12 ( even a stretched to 3 1/2" ) hasnt got what a tyen has . Loads being equal the 12 might not quite have the ability of the 20 bore regards pattern but then we get into what choke ? back bored or not / etc .
My daughter shoots a twenty , i shoot them all ( although i sold off my ten bores early this year ) . Even shooting with real premium ammo she is about ten yards behind the std 3" 12 bore 36 gram steel on geese, let alone 42 grm .
The twenty bore is now stretched to its very limits loads wise but so are the 12 bores with 3 1/2" shells , there is advantage in a lighter faster handling gun but it just does not match the 12 until you underload the 12 and over load the 20 . The 20 will knock the snot out of the shooter when you overload it
Nothing wrong with the 20 though until you start pushing heavy loads and longer ranges

 

[CNN]

Having used a 12 for the last 5 years I can definitely see the appeal of a 16 or 20 with an appropriate load for your chosen target. Depending on how much you shoot and whether you go straight to steel shot, cost of ammunition may be a factor to consider. As others have said, if you are a good shot, any should do the job.

 

[Island]

20 most certainly hasn't got the killing ability of a 12 and a 12 ( even a stretched to 3 1/2" ) hasnt got what a tyen has . Loads being equal the 12 might not quite have the ability of the 20 bore regards pattern but then we get into what choke ? back bored or not / etc .
My daughter shoots a twenty , i shoot them all ( although i sold off my ten bores early this year ) . Even shooting with real premium ammo she is about ten yards behind the std 3" 12 bore 36 gram steel on geese, let alone 42 grm .
The twenty bore is now stretched to its very limits loads wise but so are the 12 bores with 3 1/2" shells , there is advantage in a lighter faster handling gun but it just does not match the 12 until you underload the 12 and over load the 20 . The 20 will knock the snot out of the shooter when you overload it
Nothing wrong with the 20 though until you start pushing heavy loads and longer ranges

The OP referred to game shooting, not normally a heading that geese come under, and therefore the benefits that a 12b brings to the shooting of heavy steel loads are largely moot. Using extremes to compare anything is not going to provide a particularly balanced outcome. Using that line of logic one could argue that a big 8b is better than all the rest because you can shoot REALLY heavy cartridges through that...

In terms of driven, or walked up, shooting the 20b is every inch the killer that a 12b is. Talk of professional and competitive clay shooters or 3.5" steel loads for geese is meaningless.

On a 60yd cock pheasant in January a seasoned gun will kill it just as dead with a 20b as they would with a 12b. I know this for a fact because I see it done countless times a season.

 

[enfieldspares]

In terms of driven, or walked up, shooting the 20b is every inch the killer that a 12b is. Talk of professional and competitive clay shooters or 3.5" steel loads for geese is meaningless.

My late father in his sixties went from using the 30" 12 bore he been bought on his twelfth birthday in 1919 to using one of G E Lewis's "Light Magnum" 20 bore guns. These were 26" barrels, weighed about 5lbs 14ozs (from memory) and were chambered for the 2 3/4" Eley Alphamax firing one ounce of shot. I shot my first ever right and left with that gun on my pond on a cock and hen wigeon. I had them stuffed. It'd kill duck.

I did however sell it after his death as it was just too short for me at 6' 4" and with the stock lengthened to fit wouldn't fit it is case. So not that it was ineffective but that the 12 just more suited my build. So I kept the 12 bore. As below. That was restocked and did fit in its case. But, yes, that Lewis was an effective gun and I, just, met George Lewis (the son but then an old man) when he was still alive and at Lower Loveday Street in B'ham's gun quarter. Now student flats!

 

[NullMac]

Today's 70mm (or even 76mm) chambered modern over and under 20 bore guns easily hold their own against any 12 bore gun.

If you mean 'normal' 28gr loads in 20b and 12b give pretty much identical results, then yes.

A 20 bore gun however is not the same as a 12 bore gun and a typical shooter of a 20 bore will not hold his own against a 12 bore shooter. Nobody shoots a 20 bore in competition because they are a distinct disadvantage even though the ballistic performance is very similar. The dynamics of a typical 20 bore are less than ideal on most/many target types for the typical adult male.

 

[enfieldspares]

The dynamics of a typical 20 bore are less than ideal on most/many target types for the typical adult male.

Indeed. See my most recent post re my father's 20 and my father's 12. I sold the 20 and kept the 12!

 

[NullMac]

In terms of driven, or walked up, shooting the 20b is every inch the killer that a 12b is.

Yes it is

Talk of professional and competitive clay shooters or 3.5" steel loads for geese is meaningless.

Of course it isn't. Those are the circumstances where a 12 bore wins. Why is it suddenly meaningless.

On a 60yd cock pheasant in January a seasoned gun will kill it just as dead with a 20b as they would with a 12b. I know this for a fact because I see it done countless times a season.

Yup

 

[Malxwal]

Yes it is

Of course it isn't. Those are the circumstances where a 12 bore wins. Why is it suddenly meaningless.

Yup

It's meaningless because the OP referred solely to game shooting.

 

[Bowland blades]

The OP referred to game shooting, not normally a heading that geese come under, and therefore the benefits that a 12b brings to the shooting of heavy steel loads are largely moot. Using extremes to compare anything is not going to provide a particularly balanced outcome. Using that line of logic one could argue that a big 8b is better than all the rest because you can shoot REALLY heavy cartridges through that...

In terms of driven, or walked up, shooting the 20b is every inch the killer that a 12b is. Talk of professional and competitive clay shooters or 3.5" steel loads for geese is meaningless.

On a 60yd cock pheasant in January a seasoned gun will kill it just as dead with a 20b as they would with a 12b. I know this for a fact because I see it done countless times a season.

Go pattern a 20 bore game load at 60 yards , indeed 50 even . I was mixing things up to explain but it obviously lost you.

 

[HappyHunter]

I purchased a 20b Lincoln for no other reason than the LoP had already been extended and it fit. My shotgun skills are arguably lacking, but on numerous clay shoots and a couple of sim days I absolutely love it and certainly don't feel undergunned or at any disadvantage. It's a joy to carry too.

 

[Stalker-of-the-deer]

To prove a point I absolutely polaxed 4 cock birds at about 55 - 60 yards last year on the beaters day as they slipped out the side of the drive.

Your at absolutely zero disadvantage with a 20 bore.

I think the reason why the kills are more spectacular in the big bores is the shot string isn't as long and most of the pellets hit the target at the same time certainly when I hit a goose with my 10 it's like being hit by a bus and they tumble but with my 12 they just flop. The 12 kills them just as good it just isn't as spectacular

 

[Malxwal]

My experience of the 20, and I'll add I almost always have used half choke or more, is that the bird is properly folded more often, rather than coming down on one engine.

 

[Island]

Yes it is

Of course it isn't. Those are the circumstances where a 12 bore wins. Why is it suddenly meaningless.

Yup

Because the OP rather clearly stated "I'm looking at doing more game days next season". I therefore (I think safely) assumed that competitive clays and geese were somewhat of an irrelevance to the topic under discussion.

 

[Island]

Go pattern a 20 bore game load at 60 yards , indeed 50 even . I was mixing things up to explain but it obviously lost you.

I have patterned, and assisted others pattern, more guns than I care to remember, from 8 bores to .410's...

Let me say it again for you "Choked appropriately you will notice no difference in killing ability between 12b and 20b". This is for game. Not competitive clays. Not goose shooting. Game, either driven or walked up. As in, the question that the OP asked.

I tried to explain this before but it obviously lost you......

 

[Eddie P]

I'm right handed with a long standing left shoulder injury, I've started using a B525 Classic Light, it's significantly lighter then the B525 I was shooting well, but without the weight.
I'll use 28g on clays and I've gone upto 35g on game. Yes, there is more recoil, but I can drop to 21g easily if needed (425 rounds on a sim game day).

It works well for me.

Perhaps look at the specific light weight 12s as an option, or as others have said, a nice SxS.

 

[Benelli m2]

I've been watching a few videos on u tube 20 bore shooting in the valleys on pheasant and partridge some high birds were dropping I can tell you
Also I intend to use a 20 on the pigeon to now and again

 

[enfieldspares]

I'm right handed with a long standing left shoulder injury, I've started using a B525 Classic Light, it's significantly lighter then the B525 I was shooting well, but without the weight.

Now that's a different horse of a different colour. In this specific case I'd NOT advise a 20 bore. But in fact a 12 bore (if over and under with a mechanical single non-inertia trigger) and use 21 gram or 21 gram loadings. Eley did, or do, as do others a 7/8 ounce English #7 "Trainer Load". For there will be less recoil (even of the gun weights are the same) from a 24 gram 12 bore load than from a 24 gram 20 bore load. To say nothing that in reality the 12 bore gun will be heavier. So I'd advise a nice lightweight O/U (if such exist) with a mechanical single trigger or old fashioned double trigger (yes they do exist and are cheap as no one wants them) and not a 20 bore.