15 years ago

[VSS]

What's different, they aren't wild they are fenced in and slaughtered to sell = farmed.

Farmed deer are farmed just like cattle: They recieve supplementary feeding for production purposes, their breeding can be managed, they can be housed in winter, de-antlered, calves can be weaned, they can be handled through a crush, they have eartags, they get medication from time to time, and must be slaughtered in an abattoir.

Park deer, although enclosed, live pretty much as a wild herd: They are not handled in any way, recieve no supplementary feeding (except for welfare reasons), are not medicated or de-antlered, their breeding is not artificially controlled in any way and the youngsters are not forcibly weaned. They are not housed in the winter, they are legally wild, and are not required to be eartagged. Furthermore, they must be killed by hunting (as per wild deer) and not slaughtered.

 

[Nickb]

Farmed deer are farmed just like cattle. They recieve supplementary feeding for production purposes, their breeding can be managed, they can be housed in winter, de-antlered, calves can be weaned, they can be handled through a crush, they have eartags, they get medication from time to time, and must be slaughtered in an abattoir.

Park deer, although enclosed, live pretty much as a wild herd: They are not handled in any way, recieve no supplementary feeding (except for welfare reasons), are not medicated or de-antlered, their breeding is not controlled in any way and the youngsters are not forcibly weaned. They are not housed in the winter, they are legally wild, and are not required to be eartagged. Furthermore, they must be killed by hunting (as per wild deer) and not slaughtered.

Terminology thats all , I would still class them as farmed.

You farm them to sell venison.

 

[VSS]

Terminology thats all , I would still class them as farmed.

You farm them to sell venison.

It's not just terminology.
It's a completely different type of management.
It really isn’t very difficult to understand the difference.
There’s about as much similarity between park deer and farmed deer as there is between a pheasant and a battery hen.

 

[remmy243]

It's not just terminology.
It's a completely different type of management.
It really isn’t very difficult to understand the difference.
There’s about as much similarity between park deer and farmed deer as there is between a pheasant and a battery hen.

Interesting Out of interest
What size are the parks and how many deer are in them
Not prying into your business but the running cost of keeping them in parks must be zero each year .?

 

[Taff]

VSS, deer farmed here are in large fields, the only difference probably is they are moved onto cleaner paddocks more often than say a park, what is the size of the park, as to supplementary feeding for welfare reasons, that is what all good farmers do, as you know full well with sheep.
I am not having a go at you in particular, just trying to correct what I believe to be obvious omissions by some people.

Not sure what you're driving at here, but I do sometimes buy in carcasses, and I pay £4/kg. But they have to be headshot prickets or young does. Not interested in buying anything else.

The only thing I was pointing out is if you take inflation into account, you are getting the same price today, your 4 pound a kilo proves my point,
Prices have always gone up and down
80s 90s supplying butchers and customers direct 2 pound a pound, we didn’t argue that was it.
10/8/02 fallow 80p a pound
18/1/03 roe 90p a pound
24/4/04 fallow 20p a pound
7/8/04 fallow 40p a kilo roe 154 a kilo
8/9/07 red stag 64p a pound
14/3/09 fallow 1.73 per kilo, roe 2.36 per kilo
2011 roe 2.42 a kilo
2012 roe 2.42 a kilo
These are just random pages I checked

 

[Chris Richardson]

I was chatting to a colleague. Think it was an avian setup, will check.

Ah the birds of prey that have never been so numerous?

 

[weblyish]

Farmed deer are farmed just like cattle: They recieve supplementary feeding for production purposes, their breeding can be managed, they can be housed in winter, de-antlered, calves can be weaned, they can be handled through a crush, they have eartags, they get medication from time to time, and must be slaughtered in an abattoir.

Park deer, although enclosed, live pretty much as a wild herd: They are not handled in any way, recieve no supplementary feeding (except for welfare reasons), are not medicated or de-antlered, their breeding is not artificially controlled in any way and the youngsters are not forcibly weaned. They are not housed in the winter, they are legally wild, and are not required to be eartagged. Furthermore, they must be killed by hunting (as per wild deer) and not slaughtered.

That's interesting and cleared something up for me since I've seen tagged and untagged 'farmed' deer in the past

I take it the requirements prevents corralling them with a quad or dog but this would be allowed for farmed?

 

[Mungo]

Terminology thats all , I would still class them as farmed.

You farm them to sell venison.

Or you could just admit you don’t know what you’re talking about when arguing with someone doing both for a living…

 

[skywull]

his flat rate price was £3.20 per kilo to £3.50 for roe and £2.80 to £3.20 for sika cash in hand , like most other game dealers at that time and worked well i wish id kept some receipts from then , they had a glitch when one of there procurement manager drivers ****ed aff with the float he was given lol






















3

 

[VSS]

VSS, deer farmed here are in large fields, the only difference probably is they are moved onto cleaner paddocks more often than say a park, what is the size of the park

The size of the park is irrelevant. It's the management that makes it either park or farmed.

, as to supplementary feeding for welfare reasons, that is what all good farmers do, as you know full well with sheep.

You miss my point.
Farmers feed sheep for production purposes, such as weight gain, increased conception rates, etc. Usually cereal based concentrates in addition to hay or silage.
Park deer can be given supplementary hay or silage or other home-grown fodder during severe weather, for welfare reasons, so they don't starve to death. And that's about it.
Farmed deer can be fed for production, just like farmed sheep or cattle.

I'm struggling to comprehend why you can't see the difference.

I take it the requirements prevents corralling them with a quad or dog but this would be allowed for farmed?

Correct, but some parks do have an annual catch-up.
Personally, I think those that do are bending the rules a bit.

Not prying into your business but the running cost of keeping them in parks must be zero each year .?

Fairly close to zero, yes.
(Depending on winter conditions. Some supplementary feeding may be required for welfare reasons in some years).

 

[WW.]

Ah the birds of prey that have never been so numerous?

I think it was a captive collection not wild. My colleague is checking about it, will update when I hear back.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Farmed deer are farmed just like cattle: They recieve supplementary feeding for production purposes, their breeding can be managed, they can be housed in winter, de-antlered, calves can be weaned, they can be handled through a crush, they have eartags, they get medication from time to time, and must be slaughtered in an abattoir.

Park deer, although enclosed, live pretty much as a wild herd: They are not handled in any way, recieve no supplementary feeding (except for welfare reasons), are not medicated or de-antlered, their breeding is not artificially controlled in any way and the youngsters are not forcibly weaned. They are not housed in the winter, they are legally wild, and are not required to be eartagged. Furthermore, they must be killed by hunting (as per wild deer) and not slaughtered.

Canned deestalking. No more and no less.

K

 

[VSS]

Canned deestalking. No more and no less.

K

No, it's just another way of producing venison.
I don't shoot my park deer because I enjoy stalking, I shoot them because I enjoy producing and selling venison.

Doesn't matter to me whether they're wild or park, the activity of stalking is just a means to an end.

The main attraction being that I can do it all myself, from the killing to the butchery and right through to point of sale, which I can’t legally do with my sheep and cattle, and couldn't legally do with farmed deer (except under certain difficult-to-meet circumstances).

 

[Taff]

Having been a sheep farmer, I understand when feeding is required, hill grazed sheep never received supplementary feed unless we had severe snow, as it was unviable, when working on lowland sheep, we did supplement with hay and nuts depending on ewe condition prior to lambing, as we would have been described as intensive, and obviously when ewes were brought in to lamb, I also had fallow does kept as a visitor attraction, on another job, they were fed hay and a small amount of cereal occasionally ,so I could inspect them for health reasons, hardly what I would call wild.
As to the size of the park being irrelevant?
Actually you are not stalking you are shooting deer, like me yesterday I was shooting goats, not hunting them as I knew where they would be.
What you are playing with is a game of words, which are used as a marketing ploy. I have no problem with this, as you are running a business in a world of green marketing.

 

[Klenchblaize]

No, it's just another way of producing venison.
I don't shoot my park deer because I enjoy stalking, I shoot them because I enjoy producing and selling venison.

Doesn't matter to me whether they're wild or park, the activity of stalking is just a means to an end.

The main attraction being that I can do it all myself, from the killing to the butchery and right through to point of sale, which I can’t legally do with my sheep and cattle, and couldn't legally do with farmed deer (except under certain difficult-to-meet circumstances).

It wasn't a criticism but rather a statement in the technicality of the endeavor as viewed from the outside. This mindful of your reluctance - born of need - to positively distance yourself from any connection with venison farming, but not it's production for the table.

K

 

[Dickie]

Correct, but some parks do have an annual catch-up.
Personally, I think those that do are bending the rules a bit.

Could some of them be doing this for live sales?

 

[VSS]

Could some of them be doing this for live sales?

Yes. I know some that do.

 

[muddy42]

I remember when the game dealer used to collect from our garage. You phoned them up and came home to find the deer gone and cash in a jam jar. No tag, no receipt, no calculation, just cash!

 

[muddy42]

Farmed deer are farmed just like cattle: They recieve supplementary feeding for production purposes, their breeding can be managed, they can be housed in winter, de-antlered, calves can be weaned, they can be handled through a crush, they have eartags, they get medication from time to time, and must be slaughtered in an abattoir.

Park deer, although enclosed, live pretty much as a wild herd: They are not handled in any way, recieve no supplementary feeding (except for welfare reasons), are not medicated or de-antlered, their breeding is not artificially controlled in any way and the youngsters are not forcibly weaned. They are not housed in the winter, they are legally wild, and are not required to be eartagged. Furthermore, they must be killed by hunting (as per wild deer) and not slaughtered.

@VSS My understanding is that the difference between the two practises has got less in practice. Just like intensive beef or sheep farming, the price of everything you describe has gone through the roof - feed, vet, energy, labour etc, so farmers have to adapt to a low cost sysetm.

 

[VSS]

@VSS My understanding is that the difference between the two practises has got less in practice. Just like intensive beef or sheep farming, the price of everything you describe has gone through the roof - feed, vet, energy, labour etc, so farmers have to adapt to a low cost sysetm.

Yes, low input systems are becoming mainstream in UK farming now.
But the main thing with the park versus farmed deer debate is that there is a clear legal distinction between the two, in so far as park deer can be shot, processed and sold in the same way as wild deer, and have a close season, whereas farmed deer have to go through an abattoir (except under certain circumstances) and have no close season.
But in order to qualify as "park" it's got to be pretty much zero inputs, and totally hands-off management. The only management tool required is a rifle.