Dragging this up a bit rather than start new thread!
250 be absolutely max Bruce. More often 80-120
You say range work.
If you want a 250 yard gun its a stretch with a 0.22 H although with a long loaded 40 gr v-max it will do that and further, I wouldn't use a 17 HH for a fox gun.
150-200 then the 0.22 will do the job . . . .
Grey squirrel at 60yards stopped a few of my 17hmr rounds. And no apparent damage from the outside anyway. But they are tough critters
I too am puzzled by this post. I have a 17 hmr and as of yesterday have shot 438 rabbits (Estate asks for a headcount) and 3 opportunity foxes with it. Of course the little Hornady vmax is very destructive - that is what it was designed to be and you get a clue in the “ballistic tip” nomenclature but with a chest shot rabbit at 100 yards and beyond in my experience an exit hole with the 17gns round is the exception rather than the rule. Of the three foxes I have shot, two were head shots - 1 at 100 and the other at 40 yds both dead in their tracks and apart from a tiny entrance hole not much in the way of damage. The other was my first fox shot with the 17 and I shot it just behind the front leg full broadside at about 60yds. It did not drop, it ran twenty yards and I shot it again in the same place. It ran a further ten yards, stopped and by the obvious opening wide and closing of its mouth was in great pain/distress, mercifully I killed it with a head shot. The first two shots were absolutely spot on with no exit holes and the coup de grace shot shattered the skull but again no great external damage. Sooo - in my experience the “always exits” claim does not stand up either in rabbits and most certainly not in foxes.
I had a 17 HMR quite a few years ago and your runner mirrors my experience with a fox needless to say the HMR is Long gone and there isn't a place in my cabinet for one now and never will be, shooting rabbits with a HMR is a pointless exercise IMHO rabbits are getting lower in numbers and blowing them up and not head shooting them combined with not using the meat is not something i do, might use a few for fox bait, the rest go to the teckles as a part of their foodI too am puzzled by this post. I have a 17 hmr and as of yesterday have shot 438 rabbits (Estate asks for a headcount) and 3 opportunity foxes with it. Of course the little Hornady vmax is very destructive - that is what it was designed to be and you get a clue in the “ballistic tip” nomenclature but with a chest shot rabbit at 100 yards and beyond in my experience an exit hole with the 17gns round is the exception rather than the rule. Of the three foxes I have shot, two were head shots - 1 at 100 and the other at 40 yds both dead in their tracks and apart from a tiny entrance hole not much in the way of damage. The other was my first fox shot with the 17 and I shot it just behind the front leg full broadside at about 60yds. It did not drop, it ran twenty yards and I shot it again in the same place. It ran a further ten yards, stopped and by the obvious opening wide and closing of its mouth was in great pain/distress, mercifully I killed it with a head shot. The first two shots were absolutely spot on with no exit holes and the coup de grace shot shattered the skull but again no great external damage. Sooo - in my experience the “always exits” claim does not stand up either in rabbits and most certainly not in foxes.
Not wishing to start the eternal 17hmr suitability for foxes saga, rather to address the “always exits“ claim. I have shot hundreds of other foxes but if going out for them the 17 stays in the cabinet and the triple deuce with 50gns vmax is the one for me and yes sometimes even it doesn’t exit either!
Interesting I run the 17gns for rabbits but have not used them for fox. i carry two mags, one with 20grn the other with 17grn. not had any issues yet with fox, with my hornet. The HMR was ok just a few runners, oddly had a few runners with my 223. last one had a big exit whole but was still able to run 50MetersI too am puzzled by this post. I have a 17 hmr and as of yesterday have shot 438 rabbits (Estate asks for a headcount) and 3 opportunity foxes with it. Of course the little Hornady vmax is very destructive - that is what it was designed to be and you get a clue in the “ballistic tip” nomenclature but with a chest shot rabbit at 100 yards and beyond in my experience an exit hole with the 17gns round is the exception rather than the rule. Of the three foxes I have shot, two were head shots - 1 at 100 and the other at 40 yds both dead in their tracks and apart from a tiny entrance hole not much in the way of damage. The other was my first fox shot with the 17 and I shot it just behind the front leg full broadside at about 60yds. It did not drop, it ran twenty yards and I shot it again in the same place. It ran a further ten yards, stopped and by the obvious opening wide and closing of its mouth was in great pain/distress, mercifully I killed it with a head shot. The first two shots were absolutely spot on with no exit holes and the coup de grace shot shattered the skull but again no great external damage. Sooo - in my experience the “always exits” claim does not stand up either in rabbits and most certainly not in foxes.
Not wishing to start the eternal 17hmr suitability for foxes saga, rather to address the “always exits“ claim. I have shot hundreds of other foxes but if going out for them the 17 stays in the cabinet and the triple deuce with 50gns vmax is the one for me and yes sometimes even it doesn’t exit either!
Never quite understood this exiting vs no exiting point. I tried 40 gr Vmax last year & to be quite honest I had a few that seemed to take an age to go down, plenty of tail twisting etc all hit just behind the shoulder, in the boiler room. I tested some ballistic tips out on a target using an old bookcase on its side, the bullts went through the first shelf no probs, but you had to look hard for any sign on the second shelf, if you looked carefully you would see many tiny indentations, those bullets had vaporised into particles smaller than bird shot.My thoughts are that if a BT bullet hits a strong fore rib maybe just maybe they are too explosive, these bullets were designed for smaller critters. I am sure that most people would swear by the Vmax, but for me personally it put a cloud on the proceedings. Since then I have gone back to soft points, usually they knock em down like they were hit by a train usually with an exit., but the first fox I shot after moving back, ( a very large dog) ran & I could not find it. Found it in the morning 120 yards away with an exit wound you could have put your foot in, shot accurately just behind the shoulder, that fox must have run on sheer adrenalin. Go figure, maybe the more you shoot, the more variance you get, but these incidences play on your mind, maybe a bit too much sometimes.I too am puzzled by this post. I have a 17 hmr and as of yesterday have shot 438 rabbits (Estate asks for a headcount) and 3 opportunity foxes with it. Of course the little Hornady vmax is very destructive - that is what it was designed to be and you get a clue in the “ballistic tip” nomenclature but with a chest shot rabbit at 100 yards and beyond in my experience an exit hole with the 17gns round is the exception rather than the rule. Of the three foxes I have shot, two were head shots - 1 at 100 and the other at 40 yds both dead in their tracks and apart from a tiny entrance hole not much in the way of damage. The other was my first fox shot with the 17 and I shot it just behind the front leg full broadside at about 60yds. It did not drop, it ran twenty yards and I shot it again in the same place. It ran a further ten yards, stopped and by the obvious opening wide and closing of its mouth was in great pain/distress, mercifully I killed it with a head shot. The first two shots were absolutely spot on with no exit holes and the coup de grace shot shattered the skull but again no great external damage. Sooo - in my experience the “always exits” claim does not stand up either in rabbits and most certainly not in foxes.
Not wishing to start the eternal 17hmr suitability for foxes saga, rather to address the “always exits“ claim. I have shot hundreds of other foxes but if going out for them the 17 stays in the cabinet and the triple deuce with 50gns vmax is the one for me and yes sometimes even it doesn’t exit either!
Indeed - much discussion and occasional disagreement (wot - on SD - really?) about through and through versus dumping all energy in the animal. Not something I pay a lot of attention to, if the bullet puts it down efficiently that works for me. 222 Hornady Vmax 50 gns are superb for fox and 308 125gns Sierra Prohunters equally so for deer. Each of these may well go through or stop inside the animal but they just do the bizz!
Yep i changed back to 45 grn SP Winchester, far better knockdown than V max in the 22 hornet
