A short cartridge based on the .22 Hornet
- Thread starter Bavarianbrit
- Start date
Yep! What i found out with a lot of chrono testing from very , very minimum to a compressed load is ...... 22 Hornet with lil'gun will produce the same top end velocities at the lowest fills , though the mid range fill into a stuffed case full .. The only difference was the small fills had major deviations down to off memory 1400 fps . I have the data in full of all the shots.
Lil'gun is erratic until you fill the case . I am confident just filling Certain cases by dropper and eye. 13 grains wont get into many cases , i think its Winchester that gives the biggest case capacity ? PPU is well down on that
I use PPU cases and if I shake a little can get 13.5 grains of Lilgun in. Just levelled off near enough ,13 grains.
I would not use the neck for powder personally speaking on any bottle necked case . TBF the thongs I like about the Hornet is its lack of energy and its easy moderation , its also very cheap to load . 2850 fps is as far as i take it with 40-45 grain bullets ( almost never 35 v max) .
After that I reach for the 223 with thereabouts twice the capacity
It is, I have access to an action sat waiting to build one which was my intention but in all reality I am using the .223AI in the role I would use the 20 Ackley Hornet so unlikely to happen, until I run out of cheap 0.223 powders then I'll re-evaluate.I have a fair bit of .22 Hornet brass from a TCR 87 single shot rifle I sold on years ago. I had hoped to size it down to .17 Hornet, but I think I would need a series of reducing dies and a lot of dicking about to make it work, so decided it really wasn’t worth the effort, but cutting the cases off to make a pistol or single shot rifle round of larger calibre as suggested by the guy who started this thread, would be pretty straight forward and is a great idea. The other easy option would be necking down to .20 calibre. This would also thicken the brass in the neck area, which would probably work ok without the need for subsequent neck turning. I assume the .20 hornet wildcat is already out there somewhere. It’s too obvious to not have been tried, but I’m guessing it would be a very efficient round and nice and quiet for our friends across the pond who have much more trouble than us in getting moderators/suppressors. It’s a bit off topic, but my favourite cartridge conversion is .223 to 300 black out. I dug out all my scanty .223 brass including some neck cracked brass and made some .300blk cases which worked perfectly and have been reloaded several times now. I have to say though I don’t like having brass with the wrong head stamp. .300blk rounds are pretty distinctive though and not exactly easy to confuse with an actual .223 round and shouldn’t chamber in a .223. Maybe I should start a thread on the easiest cartridge conversions.
I have had several rook and rabbit rifles placed on my certificate, some have looked as though they were brand new but the barrel or chambers looked as though they were sewer pipes.
I personally found 297/230 morris tube a right pain to convert from hornet cases, the bullet is also heeled ( a lot of work but great fun )
295/300 rook if you get a good one is a joy to shoot!
.300 Sherwood and .310 cadet are a lot easier and the rifles are in better condition with stronger materials used ……
As for .360 well I bought at auction an absolute looker H&H scoped only to find the chamber was butchered …….listed for sale as .360 and .360 2.5” fell very loosely into the chasm of the breech! Caveat emptor!
really wanted .360 no 5 cartridge.
I always thought a .32 s&w long chambered rifle would be the ideal rook and rabbit rifle, maybe I have rose tinted glasses after having used a Walther GSP in .32 years ago ………they are out there but don’t confuse them with the .320 versions!
Our American friends seem to spend so much time developing new wildcat cartridges with phenomenal ballistics from .10 calibre right up to even .25 based on the hornet, jet and even rim fire cases that any work developed here may be reinventing the wheel as in the case of the centre fire cartridge designed on the size of a .22 rim fire case.
As has been said there is nothing new under the
sun. Good luck with your endeavours the hornet is a fantastic round in all of its guises!
Without experimentation there will be no progress.
P. s mentor wanted Lancashire Merseyside Cheshire areas for DSC2 experience
…asking for a friend, honest!
I personally found 297/230 morris tube a right pain to convert from hornet cases, the bullet is also heeled ( a lot of work but great fun )
295/300 rook if you get a good one is a joy to shoot!
.300 Sherwood and .310 cadet are a lot easier and the rifles are in better condition with stronger materials used ……
As for .360 well I bought at auction an absolute looker H&H scoped only to find the chamber was butchered …….listed for sale as .360 and .360 2.5” fell very loosely into the chasm of the breech! Caveat emptor!
really wanted .360 no 5 cartridge.I always thought a .32 s&w long chambered rifle would be the ideal rook and rabbit rifle, maybe I have rose tinted glasses after having used a Walther GSP in .32 years ago ………they are out there but don’t confuse them with the .320 versions!
Our American friends seem to spend so much time developing new wildcat cartridges with phenomenal ballistics from .10 calibre right up to even .25 based on the hornet, jet and even rim fire cases that any work developed here may be reinventing the wheel as in the case of the centre fire cartridge designed on the size of a .22 rim fire case.
As has been said there is nothing new under the
sun. Good luck with your endeavours the hornet is a fantastic round in all of its guises! Without experimentation there will be no progress.
P. s mentor wanted Lancashire Merseyside Cheshire areas for DSC2 experience
…asking for a friend, honest!
kenbro
Well-Known Member
A lifetime of small cal information gone with him,Crap. It looks like Todd Kindler retired last year, and the TWD is no more....smh. What a loss to the wildcat community.
Unless you have his #.
Ken.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
I thought once info etc was placed on the net it was always retrievable, otherwise how do the thought police catch the drug barons / pedos?
Sorry, I clearly took this too literally. Being s58 you, supposedly, can’t buy .297/.250 ammunition so it has to be made using .22 Hornet cases. Yes the rims need to be reduced but as the case is being cut down anyway it’s just taking the modification a stage further.I don't know of any other, but if you mean the "297/.250 Rook" this uses the "297/.230 Morris Long" case necked up.
H&H introduced the cartridge, I think.
Some other minor troubles; the .22 Hornet case rim is too thick so the action won't close.
Even if it did, the only .25 ACP bullets made are FMJ .251" which might blow the rifle up.
Just saying.
Re the .25ACP bullets, the jacketed lead core ones work fine in at least one rifle I know of. And of course they are available in cast lead form too
I'm not sure if I still have it. I'll have to check. About to go on holiday, so things have been hectic at work...
I believe the software for Saubier's BBS was very old, so I'm unsure if it was ever archived on the net.
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
Actually, the Rook Rifle cartridges and the 80-strong Eley/Kynoch range come up at every auction. It seems there's an inexhaustible supply somewhere. Converting the Hornet into anything else really needs a lathe. All this hassle plus the righthand configuration is enough for me to never consider a Rook, but blessed are those who persevere with them.
Ⓕ (S1) 50 x .297/250 Rook rifle cartridges; 10 x .500/450 Kynoch; 5 x .577 Kynoch; 5 x .240 Holla
Bid Live on Lot 2627 in the The Newnham Street Sale Auction from Southams Auctioneers.
www.the-saleroom.com
Ⓕ +VAT (S1) 250 x assorted Rook Rifle cartridges
Bid Live on Lot 2603 in the The Newnham Street Sale Auction from Southams Auctioneers.
www.the-saleroom.com
reiver
Well-Known Member
My best mate has a Horsley rook rifle converted to s&w 32 longI have had several rook and rabbit rifles placed on my certificate, some have looked as though they were brand new but the barrel or chambers looked as though they were sewer pipes.
I personally found 297/230 morris tube a right pain to convert from hornet cases, the bullet is also heeled ( a lot of work but great fun )
295/300 rook if you get a good one is a joy to shoot!
.300 Sherwood and .310 cadet are a lot easier and the rifles are in better condition with stronger materials used ……
As for .360 well I bought at auction an absolute looker H&H scoped only to find the chamber was butchered …….listed for sale as .360 and .360 2.5” fell very loosely into the chasm of the breech! Caveat emptor!
I always thought a .32 s&w long chambered rifle would be the ideal rook and rabbit rifle, maybe I have rose tinted glasses after having used a Walther GSP in .32 years ago ………they are out there but don’t confuse them with the .320 versions!
Our American friends seem to spend so much time developing new wildcat cartridges with phenomenal ballistics from .10 calibre right up to even .25 based on the hornet, jet and even rim fire cases that any work developed here may be reinventing the wheel as in the case of the centre fire cartridge designed on the size of a .22 rim fire case.
As has been said there is nothing new under the
Without experimentation there will be no progress.
P. s mentor wanted Lancashire Merseyside Cheshire areas for DSC2 experience
What a very lucky man indeed to be able to purchase ammunition off the shelf and the joy of using a rook rifle . I tried for several years to find one but gave up. I removed the .32 S&W long from my licence.
YES I know they are out there but I never found one
. I have seen several in .320 and a plethora in 32 short and long rimfire.[ To use a quote from the Simpsons
HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO OBTAIN UNOBTAINUM??]
P. s mentor wanted Lancashire Merseyside Cheshire North Wales areas for DSC2 experience
…asking for a friend, honest!Regards Rookandrabbit.
tim@tcs
Well-Known Member
I often step down a mm on bore size in one go. Neck thickness can be an issue but is worse when shortening the case length. I’ve had success neck turning but prefer it when I don’t have to as it’s difficult to get the same thickness and neck tension across a batch without using a lathe!
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