"Anyone got a tourniquet?"
- Thread starter Stalker62
- Start date
Original question was, do I have one
, but to answer your question, putting your faith in one tourniquet or one dressing for that matter, for a serious chainsaw or gunshot injury is just ticking a box. Some situations or injuries require more than one tourniquet due to location, a large dressing will hold approx 1L blood, what do you do then? Simple, apply another dressing on top, if your first tourniquet isn't stopping the arterial bleeding, loosening it will be detrimental, so add another one above the first. FYI, I also have celox Z-fold gauze to pack wounds
phillc
Well-Known Member
Tourniquets are life saving, but don't buy cheap ones. There are a lot of Chinese knockoffs, which have been demonstrated to catastrophically fail when applied in Ukraine. The windlass tends to bend or break. I know there are a tonne of different tourniquets on the market, but for peace of mind I'd probably stick to the TCCC recommended ones. Here's a list, although they do update it pretty regularly. There's a couple of Ukrainian locally developed ones now too which are pretty good, but for obvious reasons you'll rarely see them on the open market.
The other two crucial things to know are:
a) Only use a tourniquet when it's absolutely needed. That is for catastrophic haemorrhage. Think spurting blood from servered arteries, limb amputations etc. If you don't have this type of bleeding, try first to stop the bleeding with direct pressure, haemostatic gauze, pressure bandages etc.
b) Learn how to convert a tourniquet. That is to safely remove them, after putting in place other methods to stop the bleeding if possible. Tourniquets left in place for more than 2 - 3 hours can result in amputation of the limb, which is why point a) is so important.
If you're going to be carrying stuff like chest seals and splints (mentioned up thread), then you may as well extend to nasapharyngeal airway tubes and pulseometers.
In an emergency situation you have the following order of care:
1. Safety - is it safe for you to approach the patient? Think industrial accident with power tools still running (turn them off) or a cliff fall (don't put yourself at risk trying to climb down to them, unless you can find a safe route or have ropes etc)
2. Catastrophic haemorrhage - stop the bleeding.
3. Airway - are there obstructions to the patient's airway? This is where your airway tubes come in, before chest seals and way before splints. No oxygen will be the next thing to kill you, after loss of blood.
4. Breathing - is the patient breathing (assuming no airway obstruction). Now we're looking at sucking chest wounds.
5. Circulation - is CPR needed? Deal with other bleeds and burns, large bone fractures.
A pair of heavy duty medical shears is also going to be a good addition to your kit. Imagine a scenario where you're out hunting in winter and you have a catastrophic haemorrhage. No point applying a tourniquet over the top of three layers of clothes, and you also won't be able to accurately assess the bleeding through all those layers. Cut the clothes away.
Those £2 mylar space blankets aren't worth a pinch of poo, so don't bother with them for hypothermia. Buy a decent Blizzard survival insulated blanket. They're not that bulky and much more effective.
And get training! Basic first aid is fanastic, but if you want to take it to the next level, I'd recommend something like this:
College of Remote and Offshore Medicine, Remote Emergency Medical Technician course. It's 75 hours of online training, plus a full 6 days of face to face practical training in Malta. I've done it and highly recommend it (I also do a little consultancy work for CoROM, so I guess I would say that).
Edited to add: Chest seals are great and convenient, but be aware that if they're stored in a hot place, they'll turn to mush. It'll be almost impossible to remove the backing from the sticky bit. I've seen videos from last summer in Ukraine where this has happened. The medic threw away three seals in frustration before finding one that was usable. So, check where your seals are stored and/or replace them regularly. Also, in place of pre-packaged chest seals, cling film with the sides taped down with 100mph tape also works. The cling film will also be super handy as a burn dressing.
The other two crucial things to know are:
a) Only use a tourniquet when it's absolutely needed. That is for catastrophic haemorrhage. Think spurting blood from servered arteries, limb amputations etc. If you don't have this type of bleeding, try first to stop the bleeding with direct pressure, haemostatic gauze, pressure bandages etc.
b) Learn how to convert a tourniquet. That is to safely remove them, after putting in place other methods to stop the bleeding if possible. Tourniquets left in place for more than 2 - 3 hours can result in amputation of the limb, which is why point a) is so important.
If you're going to be carrying stuff like chest seals and splints (mentioned up thread), then you may as well extend to nasapharyngeal airway tubes and pulseometers.
In an emergency situation you have the following order of care:
1. Safety - is it safe for you to approach the patient? Think industrial accident with power tools still running (turn them off) or a cliff fall (don't put yourself at risk trying to climb down to them, unless you can find a safe route or have ropes etc)
2. Catastrophic haemorrhage - stop the bleeding.
3. Airway - are there obstructions to the patient's airway? This is where your airway tubes come in, before chest seals and way before splints. No oxygen will be the next thing to kill you, after loss of blood.
4. Breathing - is the patient breathing (assuming no airway obstruction). Now we're looking at sucking chest wounds.
5. Circulation - is CPR needed? Deal with other bleeds and burns, large bone fractures.
A pair of heavy duty medical shears is also going to be a good addition to your kit. Imagine a scenario where you're out hunting in winter and you have a catastrophic haemorrhage. No point applying a tourniquet over the top of three layers of clothes, and you also won't be able to accurately assess the bleeding through all those layers. Cut the clothes away.
Those £2 mylar space blankets aren't worth a pinch of poo, so don't bother with them for hypothermia. Buy a decent Blizzard survival insulated blanket. They're not that bulky and much more effective.
And get training! Basic first aid is fanastic, but if you want to take it to the next level, I'd recommend something like this:
College of Remote and Offshore Medicine, Remote Emergency Medical Technician course. It's 75 hours of online training, plus a full 6 days of face to face practical training in Malta. I've done it and highly recommend it (I also do a little consultancy work for CoROM, so I guess I would say that).
Edited to add: Chest seals are great and convenient, but be aware that if they're stored in a hot place, they'll turn to mush. It'll be almost impossible to remove the backing from the sticky bit. I've seen videos from last summer in Ukraine where this has happened. The medic threw away three seals in frustration before finding one that was usable. So, check where your seals are stored and/or replace them regularly. Also, in place of pre-packaged chest seals, cling film with the sides taped down with 100mph tape also works. The cling film will also be super handy as a burn dressing.
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I don't carry one at present, but on my shopping list. One thing I will say though is, if you're a 'lone worker' practice putting it on yourself on any limb, with both hands individually as fast and accurately as you can. Including extracting it from whatever it is carried in single handed.
Well worth getting training if you're going to carry one.
Well worth getting training if you're going to carry one.
I've long been of the opinion that most personal first aid kits have far too much in them, and most of it is useless. I've never found myself in the field in need of 24 varied sized and shaped plasters, 3 different types of wipe, 4 assorted dressings and a triangular bandage with two choices of safety pin.
Zinc oxide tape, sterile wipes, and few folded sheets of kitchen roll will fix almost anything well enough to "solider on" or head back to the car. A CAT and Israeli bandage do the rest.
Zinc oxide tape, sterile wipes, and few folded sheets of kitchen roll will fix almost anything well enough to "solider on" or head back to the car. A CAT and Israeli bandage do the rest.
phillc
Well-Known Member
I somewhat agree, but would say that SAM splints are pretty useful if you break a leg, and that triangular bandage will be used to secure it in place. Pack your first aid kit to suit the scenario. A couple of hour walk in the forest is going to have different requirements to a multi-day expedition in a remote location.
NoIDeer
Well-Known Member
My first aid kit is a phone, tourniquet, Israeli bandage and a roll of tape (foil blanket in winter). Bleeding out is about the only life threatening thing you can slow down, a sticking plaster on a stroke, heart attack or broken bone doesn't work.
If I stalked in more remote places I would look at a PLB as well.
If I stalked in more remote places I would look at a PLB as well.
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Or did he tension? Potentially a seal can induce a TP, which then needs dealing with.
You can purchase direct from CAT in USA theyll ship to you no problems, I got 2 that way
Sat Rat
Well-Known Member
I was told they had closed up shop in Chislet, not sure if they have started somewhere else!.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
I have one in with gralloch kit on binos rig, just added Celox granules and a proper dressing.
I have a CAT TQ in the car with full kit, and a SWAT in my bino harness, cellox, and some of those wee plasters with zip tie wound closing for smaller cuts. I’ve seen a few nasty cuts in the last year that has focussed the mind slightly.
My full kit came in handy this year on my shoot when a rather accident prone beater slipped and nearly put his eye out with an antler walking stick. I had saline eye wash and gauze and an eye patch, which was enough until I got him to hospital.
My full kit came in handy this year on my shoot when a rather accident prone beater slipped and nearly put his eye out with an antler walking stick. I had saline eye wash and gauze and an eye patch, which was enough until I got him to hospital.
The mk3 drag rope is in you pocket at all times, however cut any of those while doing a deer on the ground and anyone out alone could be be in deep trouble.
Carry 2xcat tq ,2x Israeli bandages + first aid kit and have wot 3 words on my phone.
Always give the mrs location, safe arrival and rtb time when out solo.
Unconscious people don't help themselves, dramatic yes but
.
Been first aiding since aged 13 ,dealt with heart attacks, open wounds ,debrided fingers ,drilled hands nothing is ott .
Carry what makes you feel safe but check it's in date and fit for purpose atb and stay safe.
Always give the mrs location, safe arrival and rtb time when out solo.
Unconscious people don't help themselves, dramatic yes but
.Been first aiding since aged 13 ,dealt with heart attacks, open wounds ,debrided fingers ,drilled hands nothing is ott .
Carry what makes you feel safe but check it's in date and fit for purpose atb and stay safe.
Nimrod1960
Well-Known Member
Good thread all.
Timely reminder, kit and skills review / upgrade required.
Timely reminder, kit and skills review / upgrade required.
A chest seal can be made using most things though to be fair. A plastic bag and a bank card, cling film and your phone case. They all work. Tape and a bandage wrapper if that's all you have to hand!
How would you deal out on your own bent over a doing deer on the ground and cut that common femoral artery
as you often see people taking off the back legs off and with a big deer it is crotch height...
My risk is ball tip knife have the guts tie off the pipes on big deer on the cart and back to the truck for the rest.
If I can get the truck (as you came in a vehicle) close then all off the hoist or hanging frame for muntjac.
There was a chap on here with cut his tendons in the kitchen sink from his razor sharp knife off work for a long time with micro surgery...
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